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Christians and Expensive Designer Brands

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Mr.Kott View Post
    Poverty is a curse you know.....


    We were not promised that this world would be trial or tribulation free. in fact the opposite is said what is promised is that He would be with us through it all the good and the bad times. God is not a Vending machine and the world faith movement trys to say just that.

    John 16:33
    These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”
    Last edited by RumTumTugger; 01-18-2016, 05:51 PM.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by RumTumTugger View Post


      We were not promised that this world would be trial or tribulation free. in fact the opposite is said what is promised is that He would be with us through it all the good and the bad times. God is not a Vending machine and the world faith movement trys to say just that.

      John 16:33
      These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”
      Good point. And to say that you can ask anything from Jesus doesn't mean He's a genie in a bottle but more like how you can go to a trusted friend. A trusted friend who is the Creator of the universe, God Almighty, and the King of kings.

      Besides, the lives the Apostles lived refutes the notion that poverty is always a curse. For example, in 2 Corinthians 11:24-27 (emphasis mine), Paul says:

      24 Five times I received from the Jews thirty-nine lashes. 25 Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned, three times I was shipwrecked, a night and a day I have spent in the deep. 26 I have been on frequent journeys, in dangers from rivers, dangers from robbers, dangers from my countrymen, dangers from the Gentiles, dangers in the city, dangers in the wilderness, dangers on the sea, dangers among false brethren; 27 I have been in labor and hardship, through many sleepless nights, in hunger and thirst, often without food, in cold and exposure.

      And James, in James 2:1-6 (emphasis mine), says:

      2 My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. 2 For if a man comes into your assembly with a gold ring and dressed in fine clothes, and there also comes in a poor man in dirty clothes, 3 and you pay special attention to the one who is wearing the fine clothes, and say, “You sit here in a good place,” and you say to the poor man, “You stand over there, or sit down by my footstool,” 4 have you not made distinctions among yourselves, and become judges with evil motives? 5 Listen, my beloved brethren: did not God choose the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him? 6 But you have dishonored the poor man. Is it not the rich who oppress you and personally drag you into court? 7 Do they not blaspheme the fair name by which you have been called?


      Now mind you, this doesn't mean being rich in and of itself is bad. What it means is that we need to have our priorities straight. And within the Church we shouldn't have an attitude of favoritism, the rich business executive has the same standing as the poor homeless man.
      Last edited by Paula; 01-18-2016, 08:15 PM.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by RumTumTugger View Post


        We were not promised that this world would be trial or tribulation free. in fact the opposite is said what is promised is that He would be with us through it all the good and the bad times. God is not a Vending machine and the world faith movement trys to say just that.

        John 16:33
        These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”
        Not to mention that scripture says that Jesus said that ""The foxes have holes and the birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head." Matthew 8:20


        Which means He was not concerned with the cares of this world. And it means He didn't have a great deal of wealth. If poverty is a curse, then Jesus was cursed.


        Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by mossrose View Post
          You can twist and misunderstand scripture all you want. You can cherry-pick whatever you think fits your so-called theology. You can call me a liar if you wish. You are preaching a different Jesus and a different gospel.

          I call you a heretic and a false prophet. And God's word proves me right and you wrong.
          Either Jesus is lying or you are. I pick you.
          There are four types of giving in the Bible:

          1. Tithe – Motivation is Obedience.

          2. First Fruits – Motivation is Generosity.

          3. Alms Giving – Motivation is Compassion.

          4. Seed Giving – Motivation is Faith and Reward.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by RumTumTugger View Post


            We were not promised that this world would be trial or tribulation free. in fact the opposite is said what is promised is that He would be with us through it all the good and the bad times. God is not a Vending machine and the world faith movement trys to say just that.

            John 16:33
            These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”
            Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them. Mark 11:24

            But without faith it is impossible to please Him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Hebrews 11:6
            There are four types of giving in the Bible:

            1. Tithe – Motivation is Obedience.

            2. First Fruits – Motivation is Generosity.

            3. Alms Giving – Motivation is Compassion.

            4. Seed Giving – Motivation is Faith and Reward.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by mossrose View Post
              Not to mention that scripture says that Jesus said that ""The foxes have holes and the birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head." Matthew 8:20


              Which means He was not concerned with the cares of this world. And it means He didn't have a great deal of wealth. If poverty is a curse, then Jesus was cursed.
              If Jesus was poor then what did He need a treasurer for?
              There are four types of giving in the Bible:

              1. Tithe – Motivation is Obedience.

              2. First Fruits – Motivation is Generosity.

              3. Alms Giving – Motivation is Compassion.

              4. Seed Giving – Motivation is Faith and Reward.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                Not to mention that scripture says that Jesus said that ""The foxes have holes and the birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head." Matthew 8:20


                Which means He was not concerned with the cares of this world. And it means He didn't have a great deal of wealth. If poverty is a curse, then Jesus was cursed.
                It's also likely intended that Jesus was identifying Himself with God's Wisdom.

                Source: Tektonics.org

                We will now show that Jesus identified himself with Wisdom, and thereby identified himself with its qualities, including co-eternality, functional subordination, and ontological equality with God.

                The Synoptic Gospels

                Matthew 8:20//Luke 9:58 Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.
                Witherington notes that the image of this saying "had been used earlier of Wisdom having no place to dwell until God assigned her such a place (cf. Sir. 24:6-7 to 1 Enoch 42:2), with Enoch speaking of the rejection of Wisdom ('but she found no dwelling place')." Witherington also notes the parallel to Sirach 36:31, "So who can trust a man that has no nest, but lodges wherever night overtakes him?" The use of these allusions "suggests that Jesus envisions and articulates his experience in light of sapiential traditions..."(Jesus Quest, 188).

                © Copyright Original Source



                Source.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Mr.Kott View Post
                  Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them. Mark 11:24

                  But without faith it is impossible to please Him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Hebrews 11:6
                  You can cherry pick all you want, but contextual understanding of those verses just doesn't support you. Example is Hebrews 11. If you go on and read further you will see stuff like this.

                  Hebrews 11:32 And what more shall I say? I do not have time to tell about Gideon, Barak, Samson and Jephthah, about David and Samuel and the prophets, 33 who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, and gained what was promised; who shut the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the fury of the flames, and escaped the edge of the sword; whose weakness was turned to strength; and who became powerful in battle and routed foreign armies. 35 Women received back their dead, raised to life again. There were others who were tortured, refusing to be released so that they might gain an even better resurrection. 36 Some faced jeers and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. 37 They were put to death by stoning;[e] they were sawed in two; they were killed by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated— 38 the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, living in caves and in holes in the ground.

                  39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, 40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

                  That sounds nothing like the "health and wealth" crowd. Oh, btw, the promise that they had faith in was that of the Messiah, not prosperity in this world which is fleeting.

                  Just as you can cherry pick, so can I.

                  James 5:1-3New International Version (NIV)

                  5 Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you. 2 Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. 3 Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days.

                  Doesn't sound too good for the rich does it? Or what about this.

                  Matthew 19:24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

                  Another bad sign.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Mr.Kott View Post
                    Either Jesus is lying or you are. I pick you.
                    You've called me a liar twice, now.

                    It is against the rules of this site to do so without substantiation. I let the first one go, but now I am telling you to prove that I am lying.

                    Otherwise you sound like you are on a playground, repeating yourself because you can't come up with anything intelligent to say.


                    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                    Comment


                    • #40


                      http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...l=1#post282165

                      Originally posted by mossrose
                      You can call me a liar if you wish.
                      You've called me a liar twice, now.

                      It is against the rules of this site to do so without substantiation. I let the first one go, but now I am telling you to prove that I am lying.
                      You gave him permission to do so, then tell him doing so is against the rules?

                      I mean, Kott is obviously both a nutter and a thread necromancer (not sure which annoys me more), but on this particular point I wouldn't bring down the rules hammer too quickly.
                      Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Spartacus View Post


                        http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...l=1#post282165





                        You gave him permission to do so, then tell him doing so is against the rules?

                        I mean, Kott is obviously both a nutter and a thread necromancer (not sure which annoys me more), but on this particular point I wouldn't bring down the rules hammer too quickly.
                        And somebody else who thinks they need to tell us how to run the site.

                        My comment was made as a "hall pass", so to speak, for that time only, since he'd already made the accusation. It was in no way intended for him or anybody else to continue as they pleased. Funny, the staff seemed to get it, and nobody reported the first instance.



                        Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Mr.Kott View Post
                          Poverty is a curse you know.....
                          Can you point to me where scripture says this?
                          Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Mr.Kott View Post
                            And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive. Matthew 21:22
                            Well that explains a lot. You're one of THOSE heretics, huh? Why don't you ask Jesus to make you fly?
                            That's what
                            - She

                            Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                            - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                            I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                            Stephen R. Donaldson

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Mr.Kott View Post
                              Either Jesus is lying or you are. I pick you.
                              Sam.jpg
                              That's what
                              - She

                              Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                              - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                              I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                              Stephen R. Donaldson

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                                Well that explains a lot. You're one of THOSE heretics, huh? Why don't you ask Jesus to make you fly?
                                Getting back to this. Is there a thread where a good explanation for why "Prosperity Gospel/Word of Faith" types are heretics, instead of just misled believers? If not a thread here, I would be willing to read some arguments put forth on other sites.

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