Announcement

Collapse

Biblical Ethics 301 Guidelines

This forum is for Christians to discuss ethical issues within Christianity. Non-theists, non-christians, and unorthodox Christians should not post here without first getting permission from the area's moderators.

If you have a question about what's OK and what's not OK, please contact the moderators.


Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

No Longer Convinced

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Jedidiah
    replied
    Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
    Somehow, I've noticed that none of the people who try to make all Proverbs universal prescriptions for behavior seem to quote Proverbs 17:8. My view is that Proverbs often tells what practically happens, not what we have to do.

    (I am not inherently opposed to corporal punishment FWIW.)
    Proverbs is often improperly used as some sort of unfailing way to make everything turn out the way you want it too. It is "wisdom literature." That means it is a general guide.

    Leave a comment:


  • KingsGambit
    replied
    Somehow, I've noticed that none of the people who try to make all Proverbs universal prescriptions for behavior seem to quote Proverbs 17:8. My view is that Proverbs often tells what practically happens, not what we have to do.

    (I am not inherently opposed to corporal punishment FWIW.)

    Leave a comment:


  • Abigail
    replied
    Originally posted by Rushing Jaws View Post
    ## If the premise is that Proverbs 13.24, 19.18 & //s are timeless, universally, and eternally valid Divine precepts on child-rearing, I think that premise is extremely doubtful. That something may work in Ancient Israel, is no kind of reason to think it will or must work equally well in other societies with very different cultures. The brutality dealt out to children has been horrendous.
    Yes, some people have been brutal in hitting their children but they are in the wrong if they have overdone it. The Bible says not to anger your children (Col 3:21). You anger your children if you are unfair and unmerciful or try and micro-manage every movement they make. I think most children, when they know the rules of a house, are able to objectively accept a slap if they have deliberately gone against those rules. As mentioned earlier, people are able to wound children much more seriously with things they say to them as 'discipline'. In my opinion a slap for a younger child who has transgressed is much tidier than non-physical punishments that might be better used on older children - it is measured and the child knows what to expect. No more, no less. A slap is over and done with quickly and then people move on. Of course slapping doesn't work on out-of-control children but that is a different problem. In Ancient Israel a person was considered an adult much younger than we do nowadays. I think what slapping does is show the child that there is a penalty for breaking laws and that is a good lesson to learn as then you have that in mind when thinking about breaking the laws of your country as an adult. In ancient times if you broke the law you would be sentenced to lashes or death whereas nowadays you are sentenced to jail so I suppose it could be argued that time-out or bannings can be used for older children as it teaches them about what is in store for them if they break the laws as adults. Obviously people can break the law because they do not agree with it and are willing to take a stand on something or other, but that is also a different matter.
    Last edited by Abigail; 02-12-2015, 04:28 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rushing Jaws
    replied
    Originally posted by Catholicity View Post
    No I didn't fail to deal with them, at least I thought I didn't. The first one Prov. 23:13 Do not withhold discipline from a child;
    if you punish them with the rod, they will not die.
    I agree, don't withhold discipline. Punish I.E. Correct with a Shebet or Guiding staff, it does not say hit beat spank hurt, or whip. How do you punish with a Guide Staff as a Shepherd over a flock of sheep? You would Thrust it in the middle of a pasture, in the ground, and toward the head of the sheep not striking them but moving them to turn around.
    Second Verse: Proverbs 29:15
    A rod and a reprimand impart wisdom, but a child left undisciplined disgraces its mother.
    I would still and argue for the Shepherding discipline and correction. I would also again point out that its not a demand for physical discipline. Do children need correction for wrongdoing? Yup! Do they need their "hides tanned" for having an opinion or expressing frustration, NO!
    ## If the premise is that Proverbs 13.24, 19.18 & //s are timeless, universally, and eternally valid Divine precepts on child-rearing, I think that premise is extremely doubtful. That something may work in Ancient Israel, is no kind of reason to think it will or must work equally well in other societies with very different cultures. The brutality dealt out to children has been horrendous.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bill the Cat
    replied
    Originally posted by Epoetker View Post

    (Obligatory non-discriminatory disclaimer: Obviously this advice will change based on how relatively mentally developed the race is, black people have traditionally been the most reliable advocates of corporal punishment often well into adulthood, whereas Asians have to fear more familial dread based on the extra capacity of Tiger Moms and pops for crushing any hints of laziness. To each their own.)
    broad_brush.jpg

    Leave a comment:


  • 37818
    replied
    "The blueness of a wound cleanseth away evil: so [do] stripes the inward parts of the belly." -- Proverbs 20:30.

    "Withhold not correction from the child: for [if] thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die." -- Proverbs 23:13.

    "Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell[nether world]." -- Proverbs 23:14.

    "Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying." -- Proverbs 19:18.

    "In the lips of him that hath understanding wisdom is found: but a rod [is] for the back of him that is void of understanding." -- Proverbs 10:13.

    "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes[early]. -- Proverbs 13:24.

    "Foolishness [is] bound in the heart of a child; [but] the rod of correction shall drive it far from him." -- Proverbs 22:15.

    The law has changed, from not breaking the skin, to prohibiting any kind of physical spanking. Making physical biblical discipline illegal.

    Biblical physical discipline was never to be done out of anger. But always out of compassion and love.
    Last edited by 37818; 12-20-2014, 09:51 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Epoetker
    replied
    The amount of physical punishment you give children is going to depend both on age and effectiveness. There is usually an age beyond when it's simply not effective for getting your larger points across, and you have to go for other means of punishment (grounding/de-allowancing/other means of checking his relatedness privileges.) If you haven't learned to lecture yet, start learning. Better yet, get your husband to do it once the kids reach teenage-hood.

    (Obligatory non-discriminatory disclaimer: Obviously this advice will change based on how relatively mentally developed the race is, black people have traditionally been the most reliable advocates of corporal punishment often well into adulthood, whereas Asians have to fear more familial dread based on the extra capacity of Tiger Moms and pops for crushing any hints of laziness. To each their own.)

    Leave a comment:


  • Darth Xena
    replied
    Originally posted by Catholicity View Post
    Wow!!! Ya point out what you think, go back and redo it, make the case you have, and get accused of a strawman, and logical fallacy by someone who is a biblical literalist and has ONE way of reading scripture. that's great, and classic. Especially of narrow minded thinkers.
    Here they are in case you forgot.

    1. Biblical literalist- patently false
    2. One way of reading Scripture- not even sure what you mean by that but it appears to be a regurgitation of number one which is patently false
    3. Narrow minded thinker - just an out of bounds (not referring to rules but to the thread context) personal attack that I would love to see supported

    I supported my charge of the two fallacies and would gladly do so again - others here have noted the same two fallacies-- maybe they are just narrow inded Biblical literalists too
    Last edited by Darth Xena; 05-06-2014, 11:49 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Darth Xena
    replied
    Still would LOVE to hear your defense of your ad hom attacks there. Quite personal them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Catholicity
    replied
    For the Record, I was NOT referencing the Pearls.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Remonstrant
    replied
    Originally posted by robrecht View Post
    No, just friendly banter.

    Leave a comment:


  • robrecht
    replied
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    yup. While I didn't like being spanked, I REALLY hated being lectured by my mom. I used to tell her to just spank me and get it over with!
    My Dad hit me a few times. No permanent damage. My Mom gave us a spanking once and we just laughed because it really did hurt her much more than it hurt us. But my wife and I have never used corporal punishment. It never seemed necessary. I was not opposed in theory, but my wife was.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sparko
    replied
    Originally posted by Just Some Dude View Post
    I'll also agree with the person who said different punishments for different children..
    yup. While I didn't like being spanked, I REALLY hated being lectured by my mom. I used to tell her to just spank me and get it over with!

    Leave a comment:


  • Just Some Dude
    replied
    I was spanked as a child. All of the elder siblings in my family were. The younger ones weren't. I have no nightmares or repressed horror stories about being spanked. In fact, I still think that the reason some of the younger ones have had bratty streaks is because they weren't belted.

    I'll also agree with the person who said different punishments for different children. Certainly was true in my family growing up.

    Leave a comment:


  • Paprika
    replied
    Originally posted by Catholicity View Post
    Wow you took me way out of context didn't you....
    I didn't.

    What is wrong with you lately? When we've disagreed in the SB lately you've behaved very defensively and irrationally, as though you don't want to acknowledge any critiques of the views you're espousing. At the end of the second exchange with me, you said something to the extent that I was talking to you like you were an "idiot", and you said something similar after your exchange here in this thread with DDW.

    Leave a comment:

Related Threads

Collapse

Topics Statistics Last Post
Started by KingsGambit, 02-10-2022, 11:02 PM
58 responses
494 views
0 likes
Last Post NorrinRadd  
Working...
X