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Is gun culture compatible with Christianity?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    It's also an indication of someone swinging wildly with a weapon he wasn't all that familiar with.
    Think about the mechanics of cutting an ear off. You have very little margin of error between the ear and hitting the man in the head, and you need to stop the blade before you slice the shoulder (or, if on the upswing, avoid it altogether). It's a show of skill.
    "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

    There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post

      Think about the mechanics of cutting an ear off. You have very little margin of error between the ear and hitting the man in the head, and you need to stop the blade before you slice the shoulder (or, if on the upswing, avoid it altogether). It's a show of skill.
      You are suggesting that was his intended goal rather than cleaving a head or shoulder.

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
        You are suggesting that was his intended goal rather than cleaving a head or shoulder.
        The text says that Peter cut, or cut off, an ear. There are many who will create different back stories to support one precept or another, but I prefer to confine evaluations to what is available from the text.
        1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
        Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
        .
        "when the church no longer teaches its people why they believe what they believe, the world will often step in and fill in the gaps." Ryan Danker

        "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

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        • #49
          Originally posted by tabibito View Post

          The text says that Peter cut, or cut off, an ear. There are many who will create different back stories to support one precept or another, but I prefer to confine evaluations to what is available from the text.
          That's my point. There is no indication what Peter's intention was. It is all speculation.

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            That's my point. There is no indication what Peter's intention was. It is all speculation.
            I was agreeing with you.

            It is always a good thing to be suspicious of precepts that use imaginary back stories for support.
            1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
            Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
            .
            "when the church no longer teaches its people why they believe what they believe, the world will often step in and fill in the gaps." Ryan Danker

            "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

            Comment


            • #51
              I'm reluctant to read that much into Jesus telling his followers to buy swords as contextually, it seems likely this was just to prompt his arrest as the time was correct. The most we could conclude is that possessing weapons is not inherently wrong, which isn't really the point here.
              "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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              • #52
                Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                I'm reluctant to read that much into Jesus telling his followers to buy swords as contextually, it seems likely this was just to prompt his arrest as the time was correct. The most we could conclude is that possessing weapons is not inherently wrong, which isn't really the point here.
                Personally, I'm suspicious of any position that relies on a single verse. Even more so if that verse has to come from a specific translation.
                "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post

                  Personally, I'm suspicious of any position that relies on a single verse. Even more so if that verse has to come from a specific translation.
                  The other verse that comes to mind is where Isaiah talks about turning swords to plowshares but it just seems way too much of a stretch to draw firm theological conclusions there.
                  "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    You are suggesting that was his intended goal rather than cleaving a head or shoulder.
                    Cutting a head (or more likely, slitting the throat), requires a horizontal slash. And the shoulder is an odd target for a vertical sword slash (esp the shorter ones they were likely using). If he was flailing about cutting the ear is possible but cutting the ear off is highly improbable.
                    "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                    There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post

                      Cutting a head (or more likely, slitting the throat), requires a horizontal slash. And the shoulder is an odd target for a vertical sword slash (esp the shorter ones they were likely using). If he was flailing about cutting the ear is possible but cutting the ear off is highly improbable.
                      You guys are hilarious, arguing about something with little or no detailed information. It could have been on purpose or it could have been an accidental wild swing. There is no way to know. And it isn't important. The important take-away is that Peter tried to defend Jesus when the guards came but Jesus didn't want him to and stopped the fighting and went away with the guards.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                        You guys are hilarious, arguing about something with little or no detailed information. It could have been on purpose or it could have been an accidental wild swing. There is no way to know. And it isn't important. The important take-away is that Peter tried to defend Jesus when the guards came but Jesus didn't want him to and stopped the fighting and went away with the guards.
                        The important detail is that the apostles were armed as a matter of habit, which makes the idea that Jesus was a pacifist untenable. I agree that Peter's skill as a warrior is not that important but hey, it was a fun discussion.
                        "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                        There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post

                          The important detail is that the apostles were armed as a matter of habit, which makes the idea that Jesus was a pacifist untenable. I agree that Peter's skill as a warrior is not that important but hey, it was a fun discussion.
                          I agree with that. People went around armed and Jesus' followers were no different. And Jesus helped the Centurion without telling him to leave the Army first. And in the Old Testament, God actually had the Hebrews create armies and go out and conquer lands.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post

                            The important detail is that the apostles were armed as a matter of habit, which makes the idea that Jesus was a pacifist untenable. I agree that Peter's skill as a warrior is not that important but hey, it was a fun discussion.
                            Pretty much a thought exercise.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              There is as much difference among the Gospels in that "sword" account as there is, e.g., in the earlier instructions about whether or not they should take staffs.

                              I really don't think Scripture is remotely definitive on the issue of whether or not Christians are permitted to use weapons or other forms of violence in self-defense.
                              Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                              Beige Federalist.

                              Nationalist Christian.

                              "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                              Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                              Proud member of the LGBFJB community.

                              Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                              Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                              Justice for Matthew Perna!

                              Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

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