Is gun culture compatible with Christianity?

[seanD]

I acknowledged earlier that a gun can be used properly as a tool. My broader question, which you haven't addressed, relates to the culture that has grown around them in the United States. (I do think the interpretation that the only reason Jesus had them take swords was to provoke the crucifixion as the time had come is plausible, but for the sake of argument I'm granting that there was nothing inherently wrong with having swords in general.)

Well, you're trying to juggle two issues in the OP. The first one, as indicated in your first paragraph, seems to be referring to pro-2A Christians in general (especially the source you linked) and is really just typical gun control drivel you hear from the left, just with a theological slant. And then the second issue is the objectionable way you feel some pro-2A conservatives seem to behave about it.

I was addressing the first issue in my last post.

As far as the second issue, I agree there are some conservatives that have a tendency to run their mouths about their personal gun ownership, but that's probably just a natural counter reaction to the anti-gun political rhetoric of the other side. As you know, things have gotten super hyper-partisan in this country, so such language is just inevitable under the circumstances.

[KingsGambit]

Well, you're trying to juggle two issues in the OP. The first one, as indicated in your first paragraph, seems to be referring to pro-2A Christians in general (especially the source you linked) and is really just typical gun control drivel you hear from the left, just with a theological slant. And then the second issue is the objectionable way you feel some pro-2A conservatives seem to behave about it.

I was addressing the first issue in my last post.

As far as the second issue, I agree there are some conservatives that have a tendency to run their mouths about their personal gun ownership, but that's probably just a natural counter reaction to the anti-gun political rhetoric of the other side. As you know, things have gotten super hyper-partisan in this country, so such language is just inevitable under the circumstances.

What I'm referring to is beyond personal boasting; it's how even the NRA, as I mentioned, openly had a guy on their board up until last summer who has spoken in favor of shooting political opponents, and many Christians enthusiastically supported this organization the whole time.

My OP was a bit jumbled, admittedly. I'm not quite sure what to make of gun policy myself. I take for granted that gun control policies are ineffective; nonetheless, on a moral level, a Christian might be better off quietly supporting gun control than enthustiastically agitating against it. The ways of Christianity are foolish to the world, and we are called to die to self. Involvement in a violent culture seems problematic on a number levels, and many Christians seem to have taken it to that level.

[seanD]

What I'm referring to is beyond personal boasting; it's how even the NRA, as I mentioned, openly had a guy on their board up until last summer who has spoken in favor of shooting political opponents, and many Christians enthusiastically supported this organization the whole time.

My OP was a bit jumbled, admittedly. I'm not quite sure what to make of gun policy myself. I take for granted that gun control policies are ineffective; nonetheless, on a moral level, a Christian might be better off quietly supporting gun control than enthustiastically agitating against it. The ways of Christianity are foolish to the world, and we are called to die to self. Involvement in a violent culture seems problematic on a number levels, and many Christians seem to have taken it to that level.

Again, it's tit-for-tat political rhetoric within a very hostile sociopolitical environment, and it's not going to get any better. The left has said some very vile things and made threats against the right as well. It just is what it is. I also think social media has magnified this exponentially and made things much worse.

If I were to address it on a deeper theological level, I'd have to reference my eschatology. They're passages indicating some Christians will be brought into captivity and some Christians will choose to fight and die. I expect this to happen once things reach a climatic breaking point. So such hostile rhetoric is even more unsurprising to me.

As far as my personal opinion, that's all I got for you.

[KingsGambit]

Again, it's tit-for-tat political rhetoric within a very hostile sociopolitical environment, and it's not going to get any better. The left has said some very vile things and made threats against the right as well. It just is what it is. I also think social media has magnified this exponentially and made things much worse.

That's a bit of a copout. The question remains - should Christians participate in such machinations because "it is what it is"? This wouldn't even require a withdrawal from politics.

[seanD]

That's a bit of a copout. The question remains - should Christians participate in such machinations because "it is what it is"?

Probably not, but that won't change anything.

[NorrinRadd]

As far as the second issue, I agree there are some conservatives that have a tendency to run their mouths about their personal gun ownership, but that's probably just a natural counter reaction to the anti-gun political rhetoric of the other side. As you know, things have gotten super hyper-partisan in this country, so such language is just inevitable under the circumstances.

This may be partly an issue of translating Christianity to the modern West. We run into somewhat of a "tension": Christianity is non-violent, but it is also counter-cultural. The dominant (elite liberal) culture is anti-gun. Pushing back against that can get out of hand, but I don't know that just quietly defending 2A is sufficient.

This may also relate a bit to the John Wayne-ification of Christianity. There is a tendency by some to equate "Biblical" masculinity with the cowboy stereotype. I don't happen to think that model is any more or less Biblical than, e.g., Leonard Hofstadter or Pajama Boy.

[rogue06]

[...]

As far as the second issue, I agree there are some conservatives that have a tendency to run their mouths about their personal gun ownership, but that's probably just a natural counter reaction to the anti-gun political rhetoric of the other side. As you know, things have gotten super hyper-partisan in this country, so such language is just inevitable under the circumstances.

You do get rather enthusiastic "cultures" sprouting up around hobbies and past times and firearms aren't an exception. Just like there are guys obsessed with their cars and everything about them, or fishing, or coaching Little League... there are folks who get that way about guns.

And there is definitely a negative side to it, what with those few folks who talk about hoping some crook breaks into their house so they'll have the chance to blow them away.

[Christianbookworm]

Yeah, people shouldn't want to have to kill in self defense. That's creepy.

[Thoughtful Monk]

This may be partly an issue of translating Christianity to the modern West. We run into somewhat of a "tension": Christianity is non-violent, but it is also counter-cultural. The dominant (elite liberal) culture is anti-gun. Pushing back against that can get out of hand, but I don't know that just quietly defending 2A is sufficient.

This may also relate a bit to the John Wayne-ification of Christianity. There is a tendency by some to equate "Biblical" masculinity with the cowboy stereotype. I don't happen to think that model is any more or less Biblical than, e.g., Leonard Hofstadter or Pajama Boy.

So, if a Christian culture actually came into existence, the Christian thing to do would be to be counter-cultural to a Christian culture?

[Sparko]

I have a handgun and I enjoy shooting it. I grew up with guns (Dad was from the country and in the Army) and have always liked them. But I would never hope to have a chance to use one against another human being. I hope the exact opposite, I never want to be in the position of needing to shoot another person, but if I am ever put in such a situation, I would rather be the one shooting then the one being shot because I didn't have a gun and someone broke into my house.

I don't see a problem with liking to collect guns. I collect knives and swords. Not because I want to kill someone with them but because I admire the craftmanship and various styles. They basically sit in boxes or hang on the wall. Some people do the same with guns.

I don't endorse being obsessed with wanting to using guns (or other weapons) against people. That's psychotic.

[rogue06]

I have a handgun and I enjoy shooting it. I grew up with guns (Dad was from the country and in the Army) and have always liked them. But I would never hope to have a chance to use one against another human being. I hope the exact opposite, I never want to be in the position of needing to shoot another person, but if I am ever put in such a situation, I would rather be the one shooting then the one being shot because I didn't have a gun and someone broke into my house.

I don't see a problem with liking to collect guns. I collect knives and swords. Not because I want to kill someone with them but because I admire the craftmanship and various styles. They basically sit in boxes or hang on the wall. Some people do the same with guns.

I don't endorse being obsessed with wanting to using guns (or other weapons) against people. That's psychotic.

What type of swords do you have? I know someone who collects old Medieval Europe Viking-style long swords. Last I checked he had three or four -- all roughly 900 to 1000 years old.

[Sparko]

What type of swords do you have? I know someone who collects old Medieval Europe Viking-style long swords. Last I checked he had three or four -- all roughly 900 to 1000 years old.

The only old ones I have are a couple of sabers from WW1 and what I think is an old roman sword (basically just a rusted blade) my dad got for me when we lived in Germany. I used to have a Katana but it got stolen. My other blades are new, just some cool looking swords I found. I do have a Gil Hibben dagger or two. He makes a lot of fantasy blades used in films.

[RumTumTugger]

Yeah, people shouldn't want to have to kill in self defense. That's creepy.

you forgot the sarcasm tags CBW

[Littlejoe]

What I'm referring to is beyond personal boasting; it's how even the NRA, as I mentioned, openly had a guy on their board up until last summer who has spoken in favor of shooting political opponents, and many Christians enthusiastically supported this organization the whole time.

My OP was a bit jumbled, admittedly. I'm not quite sure what to make of gun policy myself. I take for granted that gun control policies are ineffective; nonetheless, on a moral level, a Christian might be better off quietly supporting gun control than enthustiastically agitating against it. The ways of Christianity are foolish to the world, and we are called to die to self. Involvement in a violent culture seems problematic on a number levels, and many Christians seem to have taken it to that level.

Should we as Christians get out of the pro-life movement because of some of the rhetoric and actions of those who think it's fine to threaten Doctors, nurses and patients with harm and even go so far as to bomb or set fire to abortion clinics?

The problem to me, as a gun owner is that the threat to my 2nd amendment freedom to own a gun is constantly threatened by the gun control lobby, politicians and such. Unfortunately, there has to be a big enough block of voters, protestors the counteract those threats. This leads to a those who aren't with me are against me. I don't agree with Ted, and I haven't supported the NRA for years because I believe they were taking the money and not really doing much, while fanning the flames to keep themselves relevant. We see this a lot in politics don't we? A lot of this would die off if both sides would just cool their jets.

[Chaotic Void]

Note that the question I'm asking is not whether gun control works or is good public policy. On a personal level, do Christians have business owning guns?

Scot McKnight hasn't thought so for awhile. His recent blog post is thought provoking: https://scotmcknight.substack.com/p/...tian-own-a-gun

Personally, I'm not at the point where I'm going to condemn Christians for owning guns. But I don't think that American gun culture is compatible with Christianity. The NRA with Ted Nugent on the board openly talking about shooting liberals, is not something I can see Jesus supporting. Period. Or "jokes" about killing intruders/people dating your daughter/etc.

It depends whether or not it becomes a spiritually unhealthy issue for the individual Christian. If someone can enjoy a 'culture,' (like gun culture) while distancing and disowning the spiritually unhealthy elements that's one thing. If it borders on an actual Sin Issues, like Idolatry, then that's when it becomes a problem.