The unwell fall of Falwell

[rogue06]

Actually, there was quite a bit of war between Charles and Andy.

That's not what I mean (and that now appears to be water under the bridge). I'm talking about things like doctrinal issues and / or moral/financial scandals. Maybe even just where the son isn't very good at what he does. But FWIU none of those are issues in this case. Will Andy ever completely fill or outgrow Charles' shoes? Personally I'm not betting on it but from everything I've heard he does a good job.

[Cow Poke]

That's not what I mean (and that now appears to be water under the bridge). I'm talking about things like doctrinal issues and / or moral/financial scandals. Maybe even just where the son isn't very good at what he does. But FWIU none of those are issues in this case. Will Andy ever completely fill or outgrow Charles' shoes? Personally I'm not betting on it but from everything I've heard he does a good job.

Good point - and Andy didn't actually "inherit" his Dad's "enterprise". He went out on his own. So, I don't think this is a good example of a bad situation where the son inherited the dynasty and blew it.

[rogue06]

Good point - and Andy didn't actually "inherit" his Dad's "enterprise". He went out on his own. So, I don't think this is a good example of a bad situation where the son inherited the dynasty and blew it.

He's pretty much back "in house" now and set to inherit the dynasty though. But in his case he has already shown that he can make it on his own.

Again, FWIU, since I'm not a member of First Baptist although I know a couple folks who are, and noting the fact there seems to be a lack of rumors or innuendos (at least as far as I'm aware of).

[Cow Poke]

He's pretty much back "in house" now and set to inherit the dynasty though. But in his case he has already shown that he can make it on his own.

Again, FWIU, since I'm not a member of First Baptist although I know a couple folks who are, and noting the fact there seems to be a lack of rumors or innuendos (at least as far as I'm aware of).

Yes, it was QUITE a while ago (I just checked) that an arbiter team was trying to get them reconciled --- my timeframe was way off. I didn't know he was back "in house", though.

[KingsGambit]

Maybe a good example of someone who struck out on his own successfully is Sean McDowell, Josh McDowell's son. Sean has a fine ministry, but he's sort of made it his own. He focuses more on just apologetics; he also has stuff on ethics and worldview. He didn't try to imitate his dad; he has just tried to be himself, and that's worked out well.

[Sparko]

What about Franklin Graham?

[rogue06]

Yes, it was QUITE a while ago (I just checked) that an arbiter team was trying to get them reconciled --- my timeframe was way off. I didn't know he was back "in house", though.

Might have spoke too soon. Anthony still has his own ministry although their appears to have been a reconciliation. The talk of back in the family has more to do with In Touch Ministries and its future more than First Baptist of Atlanta. Mea culpa.

[Cow Poke]

Might have spoke too soon. Anthony still has his own ministry although their appears to have been a reconciliation. The talk of back in the family has more to do with In Touch Ministries and its future more than First Baptist of Atlanta. Mea culpa.

[Cow Poke]

What about Franklin Graham?

I think Franklin is a good study in a bad boy gone good, and stepping up to the challenge.

[KingsGambit]

Falwell aside, some very important questions have been raised. I think it would be difficult to argue that Christians are too quick to assume this passage doesn't apply to them. (John Wenham, a notable conservative Bible scholar of the late 20th century, went so far as to think that Christians should avoid courts altogether, and would not file a lawsuit when he was severely injured in a truck accident that killed his wife, but at least accepted a settlement. He ended up evangelizing the truck driver who was at fault, so there may be something to his approach.)

[NorrinRadd]

By way of local reputation Andy delivers excellent sermons and the like. And at least no whiff of potential scandal -- so far. But I wonder if after Charles is gone if we'll see that reflected in the sermons afterwards, although I've heard they have distinct styles...

Didn't Andy pass a cloud of stink a few years ago when he started talking about the "Obsolete Covenant"?

And isn't one of the reasons for declaring Beth Moore a hairy tick the fact that she "follows" him on social media?

[KingsGambit]

I'm not part of the cool kids club so I'm not sure what the above refers to, but if we're putting people on trial just for following other people on Twitter, that's silly.

[NorrinRadd]

I'm not part of the cool kids club so I'm not sure what the above refers to, but if we're putting people on trial just for following other people on Twitter, that's silly.

There's a big thread about Beth Moore vs. the SBC. The SBC-favoring anti-Beth crowd have a tendency to refer to her as a "heretic" (my "hairy tick" jab) rather cavalierly. On searching various sites documenting her various failings, her tendency to "follow" various dubious preachers is one of the (several) fagots piled on the fire. Andy was one of them. Kay Arthur was another, IIRC. Some others were more clearly in the "out there" category. I'd prefer she take input more from people like Craig Keener, Ben Witherington, Cynthia Westfall, etc., but I don't know whether any of them have even SEEN Twitter.

[Cow Poke]

There's a big thread about Beth Moore vs. the SBC. The SBC-favoring anti-Beth crowd have a tendency to refer to her as a "heretic" (my "hairy tick" jab) rather cavalierly. On searching various sites documenting her various failings, her tendency to "follow" various dubious preachers is one of the (several) fagots piled on the fire. Andy was one of them. Kay Arthur was another, IIRC. Some others were more clearly in the "out there" category. I'd prefer she take input more from people like Craig Keener, Ben Witherington, Cynthia Westfall, etc., but I don't know whether any of them have even SEEN Twitter.

I'm pretty plugged into SBC circles in Texas and several other states, and our main criticism of Beth Moore is that she's known since 2016 things she appears to have "just realized" -- She enjoyed her relationship with Southern Baptists as long as they were her main audience, but as she branched out into broader fields, and could see she could make more money, she no longer needed Lifeway or the SBC.

She's like the politician who will say anything to whatever audience is the biggest and most useful for her own goals and enrichment.

[myth]

I'm pretty plugged into SBC circles in Texas and several other states, and our main criticism of Beth Moore is that she's known since 2016 things she appears to have "just realized" -- She enjoyed her relationship with Southern Baptists as long as they were her main audience, but as she branched out into broader fields, and could see she could make more money, she no longer needed Lifeway or the SBC.

She's like the politician who will say anything to whatever audience is the biggest and most useful for her own goals and enrichment.

I haven't really followed the Beth Moore controversy much. But I did read that there was an element of her expressing some political views (i.e. anti-Trump, or maybe it was pro-vax, not sure) that caused a backlash from the SBC base. Any truth to that? I mention that because of the controversy with Russell Moore and, frankly, my own concern about the SBC's embrace of Trump.

Regarding Falwell Jr, as a Liberty alum, I'm pretty disappointed over the whole affair. Not so much in Falwell (who clearly had his issues), but in the university's board of directors who utterly failed to reign in him. I recall reading a lengthy investigative piece by a journalist (and Liberty alum) who laid out pretty clearly how the financial malfeasance has been going on literally years, not the mention the sexual scandals (some of which include actual evidence, like text messages, voicemails, and photos). Either the board was so negligent they failed to look into these matters, they were so incompetent they failed to ascertain the truth, they were blinded by loyalty to the Falwell name, or they made the calculated decision to ignore all of the improprieties for fundraising purposes. None of that is acceptable. As directors they failed in the oversight and fiduciary duties to the organization, and as Christians they failed to confront someone who was living in sin. I'm more worried about the implications of the board's poor leadership than I am about Falwell being such a bad apple.