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How bad is science knowledge in the US?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Paprika View Post
    Agreed. I would also say some medical knowledge is essential.

    But for example, from a layman's perspective, the truth about the AGW controversy will require sifting through the data and the models, which requires skills and knowledge that is not basic. I don't think I can come up with a workable solution to that, but I think that on such technical (scientific, economic) issues laymen without the requisite knowledge should not vote.
    I can't see denying the vote based on ignorance. Completely ignoring the Constitutional factor, the idea seems to have some merits, but the deficits far outweigh any possible benefits.

    On the other hand, requiring any study claimed to be scientific to disclose the sources of funding might be interesting. Again, it would be unconstitutional, but it certainly would make things a lot easier.

    Hey, as long as I'm talking about impractical pipe dreams, maybe we could make politicians wear the company logos of their corporate sponsors, like race-car drivers do! At least we'll know whose bought our politicians who supposedly work for us.

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    • #17
      I'm not saying denying the vote; I'm just saying they shouldn't vote. Just like I wouldn't vote on an economic issue because my knowledge is deficient.

      On another note, as I pointed out in another thread, for the layman scientific knowledge is acquired via authority. There's nothing wrong in principle with that. But in the AGW controversy, for example, both sides are portraying themselves as authorities, creating a problem.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View Post
        The big problem with that approach is that we live in a world where more and more we are leaning on science and technology for our quality of life. If you don't understand the basics of the science and technology you won't be able to make informed decisions on important scientific and technical matters.

        Even if we are more and more leaning on technology for our quality of life, is does not mean that we should have a basic knowledge of how one technology works or the science behind it. Do i need to know C+++ to use Excel and Word? Do i need to know the basic computer language (0 and 1) to use computer? Do i need to know the science of car engine to use a car?
        People wanted to retain what is only important to them. (sometimes, we even forgot the birthdays of our loved ones)

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Outis View Post
          Would you believe 1 in 4 don't know the earth revolves around the sun?

          http://newsfeed.time.com/2014/02/16/...-orbits-earth/

          It's even worse in Europe, where 1 in 3 got that wrong.
          Teach the controversy I say (helio v geo). I'm sure JM and Jorge would want to see it taught?

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Outis View Post
            Would you believe 1 in 4 don't know the earth revolves around the sun?

            http://newsfeed.time.com/2014/02/16/...-orbits-earth/

            It's even worse in Europe, where 1 in 3 got that wrong.
            This may not be about how bad science is but more on what are the "important" stuff kids are learning.
            If you focus your teaching in diversity rather than on science, what do you expect.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Outis View Post
              Would you believe 1 in 4 don't know the earth revolves around the sun?

              http://newsfeed.time.com/2014/02/16/...-orbits-earth/

              It's even worse in Europe, where 1 in 3 got that wrong.
              What else would you expect in a society where people are far, FAR more interested in the latest score in sports, or in what color Lady Gaga's panties are (if she wore any), or in the latest BS from Oprah's fat mouth, or in the next vacation, or in how long remaining until retirement, or in the next superhero movie coming out, or in what brand of beer to buy, or in ... on and on and on and on and on...

              Throw into that "Common Core" and the other attacks on "education" - meant only to create a dumbed-down, non-thinking herd of sheeple - and the results that you speak of are fully, 100% expected.

              Move along folks ... nothing to see here ... move along.

              Jorge

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Jorge View Post
                What else would you expect in a society where people are far, FAR more interested in the latest score in sports, or in what color Lady Gaga's panties are (if she wore any), or in the latest BS from Oprah's fat mouth, or in the next vacation, or in how long remaining until retirement, or in the next superhero movie coming out, or in what brand of beer to buy, or in ... on and on and on and on and on...

                Throw into that "Common Core" and the other attacks on "education" - meant only to create a dumbed-down, non-thinking herd of sheeple - and the results that you speak of are fully, 100% expected.

                Move along folks ... nothing to see here ... move along.

                Jorge
                The first two points are correct, after that you demonstrated what's wrong.

                Kinda like a libertarian, at first it's like yeah that makes sense, then you realize they're nuts.
                "The Lord loves a working man, don't trust whitey, see a doctor and get rid of it."

                Navin R. Johnson

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Wally View Post
                  The first two points are correct, after that you demonstrated what's wrong.

                  Kinda like a libertarian, at first it's like yeah that makes sense, then you realize they're nuts.
                  Having seen the attacks* on education myself, he's right. Every year that my brother and I were going to school, I could see the deterioration in what they taught, and how much. Then there's the fact that they purposely tried to slow down the smart kids so those behind could catch up.

                  *Might not be the same kind of attack Jorge is talking about, but I saw attacks on education nonetheless, and this was from inside the schools too.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by seanD View Post
                    People are ignorant in general. I can link you to dozens of these videos asking questions of people on just about everything that might be considered pretty important. I saw one video where the interviewer led people to believe that JFK had just recently died. It actually scared me. There was also another video where the guy made people support everything Romney stood for because the guy told them it was what Obama stood for.
                    Jay Leno had a feature on the Tonight Show where he went around the streets of L.A. asking very basic questions and would air the incredibly ignorant remarks from passers-by some of whom would identify themselves as in college or were school teachers. For instance some would say that we fought the Germans in the Revolutionary War or that our Civil War took place in the 1920s. Others had no idea what the capitol of the country was or that Hawaii was a state.

                    Still I strongly suspect that these responses were cherry picked out of a large number where the vast majority had no trouble with them.

                    As for the poll... color me skeptical.

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                      Having seen the attacks* on education myself, he's right. Every year that my brother and I were going to school, I could see the deterioration in what they taught, and how much. Then there's the fact that they purposely tried to slow down the smart kids so those behind could catch up.

                      *Might not be the same kind of attack Jorge is talking about, but I saw attacks on education nonetheless, and this was from inside the schools too.
                      Attacks by Centrum123 and Jorge on science and science education.
                      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                      go with the flow the river knows . . .

                      Frank

                      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                        Attacks by Centrum123 and Jorge on science and science education.
                        Hypocritical one liner noted.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                          Having seen the attacks* on education myself, he's right. Every year that my brother and I were going to school, I could see the deterioration in what they taught, and how much. Then there's the fact that they purposely tried to slow down the smart kids so those behind could catch up.

                          *Might not be the same kind of attack Jorge is talking about, but I saw attacks on education nonetheless, and this was from inside the schools too.
                          It would help to properly characterize events. Unless you're claiming that the goal is to purposefully dumb down all people (in which case, substantiate), then there's no attack here. We have enough hyperbole in the U.S. without pointing to every single thing and calling it an attack.
                          I'm not here anymore.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Wait. what? The earth goes around the sun?

                            When did this happen? What did it do when it got to the other side?



                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              Wait. what? The earth goes around the sun?

                              When did this happen? What did it do when it got to the other side?


                              Silly pirate. It becomes night cause we be in the shade then.

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Jorge View Post
                                What else would you expect in a society where people are far, FAR more interested in the latest score in sports, or in what color Lady Gaga's panties are (if she wore any), or in the latest BS from Oprah's fat mouth, or in the next vacation, or in how long remaining until retirement, or in the next superhero movie coming out, or in what brand of beer to buy, or in ... on and on and on and on and on...

                                Throw into that "Common Core" and the other attacks on "education" - meant only to create a dumbed-down, non-thinking herd of sheeple - and the results that you speak of are fully, 100% expected.

                                Move along folks ... nothing to see here ... move along.

                                Jorge
                                Aren't you the guy who wants to teach students that the universe is only 6000 years old, that all fauna on the planet came from one or seven pairs of animals saved from an Earth destroying Flood by eight people on a big wooden boat only 4500 years ago, and that all languages were zapped into existence in a one-time event only 4000 years ago?

                                Tell us more about these attacks on education.

                                Comment

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