Leucretius must have his day!

[shunyadragon]

We must have a Lucretius Day in commemoration of his publication of De Rerum Natura. He started all the trouble of modern science, atoms. infinities, and other such nonsense that stirred up the believers in antiquated beliefs of his day.




*He acknowledge Epicurus as his source for knowing atoms exist.

[shunyadragon]

Gravity

For if anyone thinks that the heavier bodies could

fall on the lighter, because they fall down more swiftly,

and that this could be the origin of the encounters

which bring about the movements of generations,

they are certainly wandering a long way from the truth.

Anything falling through water or through the air

no doubt must gain in speed as it has more weight

because the body of water and the nature of air

are such that they cannot offer equal resistance

to everything, but give way fast to the heaviest:

But the void has no power of resisting anything

at any time whatsoever or at any place;

Its nature is to give way, and so it does.

It follows that the void is passive and everything falls

through it at equal speed whatever its weight

and therefore there is no question of lighter elements

being fallen upon from above, so having encounters

which might produce the movements required by nature.

[robrecht]

quare etiam atque etiam paulum inclinare necessest corpora; nec plus quam minimum

Therefore again and again it is necessary for the bodies to swerve, no more than a little ...

2,243-245

[Epoetker]

because the body of water and the nature of air are such that they cannot offer equal resistance to everything, but give way fast to the heaviest:

Very poor presentation, the nature of air and water is to have a uniform resistance according to their nature, that is overcome by surface area, not weight.

Those who dream may hit on some aspect of the truth, it is not until that truth is integrated with other revealed truths that it becomes understood. It is far less useful to talk about a place of frictionless spheres than it is to measure the resistance of various substances against, say, a single rock, in a controlled manner. Build your theory on the rock, not the void, lest you lose your connection to truth through lack of experimental results. Otherwise even the truths you discover will be despised, as is anything mixed with lies and fanciful speculation.

[shunyadragon]

quare etiam atque etiam paulum inclinare necessest corpora; nec plus quam minimum

Therefore again and again it is necessary for the bodies to swerve, no more than a little ...

2,243-245

No. What's the point? Leucretius is going to far from accurate on many things. This is first century BCE

[robrecht]

No. What's the point? Leucretius is going to far from accurate on many things. This is first century BCE

No, I just think it is an interesting part of his theory. I've even seen some people compare it to QM.

[shunyadragon]

Those who dream may hit on some aspect of the truth[/B], . . .

Those who don't, stay stuck in the past. Some of his conclusions were based on observation, and he encouraged this for the future.

it is not until that truth is integrated with other revealed truths that it becomes understood.

Unfortunately, as far as the science of our physical world, this remains a ball and chain for the religious texts of ancient worldviews.

It is far less useful to talk about a place of frictionless spheres than it is to measure the resistance of various substances against, say, a single rock, in a controlled manner. Build your theory on the rock, not the void, lest you lose your connection to truth through lack of experimental results. Otherwise even the truths you discover will be despised, as is anything mixed with lies and fanciful speculation.

I believe he hit a few home runs. Leucretius is going to be far from accurate on many things. More accurate then the Bible or anything else written at the time. This is first century BCE

[shunyadragon]

No, I just think it is an interesting part of his theory. I've even seen some people compare it to QM.

Sorry I misunderstood your point, but I do not believe his observation were intended for QM, but made on a larger scale. He was still a very Newtonian sort of guy.

[shunyadragon]

the first coherent explanation of our universe as probably having other worlds like ours, and with life and other intelligent life possible. Very advance viewing the universe as consisting of stars with solar systems. He proposes uniformity in nature. Inspiration for science fiction!

Besides, wherever there is matter to hand

and place for it, and no cause to prevent it,

the matter must indeed turn into things.

For if the number of elemental bodies

is such that a whole age could not reckon it up

and if the force of nature remains the same

to throw the wandering elements to and fro

in the same way as here, it must be admitted

there are other worlds in other parts of the universe

and other races of men and of wild beasts.

[robrecht]

Sorry I misunderstood your point, but I do not believe his observation were intended for QM, but made on a larger scale. He was still a very Newtonian sort of guy.

Oh, sure, no one would hear of QM for another 2,000 years. But any Naturalist system needs some element of random creativity or a final cause of some sort.

[shunyadragon]

Oh, sure, no one would hear of QM for another 2,000 years. But any Naturalist system needs some element of random creativity or a final cause of some sort.

I actually missed this. I disagree that nature needs a necessary final cause of some sort. I believe nature has a cause in Creation, but it does not need one based on the evidence.

[shunyadragon]

[shunyadragon]

[robrecht]

I actually missed this. I disagree that nature needs a necessary final cause of some sort. I believe nature has a cause in Creation, but it does not need one based on the evidence.

Which is why I said 'or'.

[shunyadragon]

'Nothing can be created from nothing.'

'Tempests, and bright lightnings, are to be sung; their nature is to be told, and from what cause they pursue their course; lest, having foolishly divided the heaven into parts, you should be anxious as to the quarter from which the flying flame may come, or to what region it may betake itself; and tremble to think how it penetrates through walled enclosures, and how, having exercised its power, it extricates itself from them. Of which phenomena the multitude can by no means see the causes, and think that they are accomplished by supernatural power.'

Lucretius