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Creationism and inferior races

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  • Creationism and inferior races

    Okay, this is an honest question. In my admitted ignorance of the subject of human creation, I'd like the experts in here to school me on how human creation doesn't lead to the conclusion of superior and inferior ethnicities. IOW, I'm totally ignorant of how creationism explains the origin of ethnicities, so explain to me in layman's terms how certain races of people being genetically inferior (intellectually, physically, etc.) to other races is erroneous in the context of human creation.
    "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

    There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
    Okay, this is an honest question. In my admitted ignorance of the subject of human creation, I'd like the experts in here to school me on how human creation doesn't lead to the conclusion of superior and inferior ethnicities. IOW, I'm totally ignorant of how creationism explains the origin of ethnicities, so explain to me in layman's terms how certain races of people being genetically inferior (intellectually, physically, etc.) to other races is erroneous in the context of human creation.
    I am not sure why your asking this question in the Natural Science 301 section. It does not sound like a question of science.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

    Comment


    • #3
      Henry Morris had mostly non-insane observational musings on the issue derived from his Christian religion, which is a whole lot better than what Gould and Lewontin made of it:

      Originally posted by Henry Morris, decent and truthful scientist
      The descendants of Ham were marked especially for secular service to mankind. Indeed they were to be 'servants of servants,' that is 'servants extraordinary!' Although only Canaan is mentioned specifically (possibly because the branch of Ham's family through Canaan would later come into most direct contact with Israel), the whole family of Ham is in view. The prophecy is worldwide in scope and, since Shem and Japheth are covered, all Ham's descendants must be also. These include all nations which are neither Semitic nor Japhetic. Thus, all of the earth's 'colored' races,--yellow, red, brown, and black--essentially the Afro-Asian group of peoples, including the American Indians--are possibly Hamitic in origin and included within the scope of the Canaanitic prophecy, as well as the Egyptians, Sumerians, Hittites, and Phoenicians of antiquity.

      The Hamites have been the great 'servants' of mankind in the following ways, among many others: (1) they were the original explorers and settlers of practically all parts of the world, following the dispersion at Babel; (2) they were the first cultivators of most of the basic food staples of the world, such as potatoes, corn, beans, cereals, and others, as well as the first ones to domesticate most animals; (3) they developed most of the basic types of structural forms and building tools and materials; (4) they were the first to develop fabrics for clothing and various sewing and weaving devices; (5) they were the discoverers and inventors of an amazingly wide variety of medicines and surgical practices and instruments; (6) most of the concepts of basic mathematics, including algebra, geometry, and trigonometry were developed by Hamites; (7) the machinery of commerce and trade--money, banks, postal systems, etc.--were invented by them; (8) they developed paper, ink, block printing, movable type, and other accoutrements of writing and communication. It seems that almost no matter what the particular device or principle or system may be, if one traces back far enough, he will find that it originated with the Sumerians or Egyptians or early Chinese or some other Hamitic people. Truly they have been the 'servants' of mankind in a most amazing way.

      Yet the prophecy again has its obverse side. Somehow they have only gone so far and no farther. The Japhethites and Semites have, sooner or later, taken over their territories, and their inventions, and then developed them and utilized them for their own enlargement. Often the Hamites, especially the Negroes, have become actual personal servants or even slaves to the others. Possessed of a genetic character concerned mainly with mundane matters, they have eventually been displaced by the intellectual and philosophical acumen of the Japhethites and the religious zeal of the Semites.

      These very general and broad national and racial characteristics obviously admit of many exceptions on an individual genetic basis. It is also obvious that the prophecy is a divine description of future facts, in no way needing the deliberate assistance of man for its accomplishment. Neither Negroes nor any other Hamitic people were intended to be forcibly subjugated on the basis of this Noahic declaration. The prophecy would be inevitably fulfilled because of the innate natures of the three genetic stocks, not by virtue of any artificial constraints imposed by man.
      This is in contrast to:

      Originally posted by Richard Lewontin, self-promoting bandwagon jumper
      Human racial classification is of no social value and is positively destructive of social and human relations. Since such racial classification is now seen to be of virtually no genetic or taxonomic significance either, no justification can be offered for its
      continuance.
      Nope.

      What about that other popular guy?

      Originally posted by Steven Jay Gould, Marxist, self-promoting bandwagon jumper and willing liar for pay
      Morton published all his raw data, and it is shown here that his summary tables are based on a patchwork of apparently unconscious finagling. When his data are properly reinterpreted, all races have approximately equal capacities.
      Nope, again:

      Gould didn’t re-measure any of the skulls. He reanalyzed Morton’s data … and in the process did far more fudging than Morton had ever done. When a team of physical anthropologists, headed by Jason E. Lewis, located and re-measured half of the skulls, they found only a few randomly distributed errors in the original measurements. Morton had in fact tended to overestimate African skull size
      Stephen-Jay-Gould-300x225.jpg
      I never did the tests!

      Creationists, even in their current incarnation, have much more intelligent and broad-minded leaders than evolutionists do, and Henry Morris's formulations on race, while only his working theory, are actually based on observations, broadly sympathetic, recognizing of recent and ancient human history, and also far in advance of any established church's willingness to claim. But sadly, any establishment has the urge to go along with the crowd, and there will always be Steven Jay Goulds in the world to tell them what they want to hear.

      Comment


      • #4
        Also, a bonus on the man Gould was attacking:

        It is also doubtful whether Morton considered Africans to be less “evolved” than Europeans. His Crania Americana was published in 1839, long before the first attempts to apply evolutionary theory to human races. Morton was in fact a devout Christian who wished to find out whether different human populations were separate species resulting from multiple divine creations or a single species created but once. He had little if any interest in research on human intelligence, which anyhow was embryonic at the time.

        Comment


        • #5
          Oh boy!!!! This thread definitely needs to be moved from Natural Science 301
          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

          go with the flow the river knows . . .

          Frank

          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
            Oh boy!!!! This thread definitely needs to be moved from Natural Science 301
            I think you are correct.

            ". . . And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, . . ." -- Acts 17:26.

            . . . the origin of ethnicities, . . .
            Would be do to genetic segregation do to languages and the derived cultures.
            Last edited by 37818; 02-11-2014, 03:16 PM.
            . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

            . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

            Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
              Oh boy!!!! This thread definitely needs to be moved from Natural Science 301
              I smell fear.

              And as for Mr. Glib:

              Full Acts 17:26, NIV

              From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands.
              Better watch out. The origin of ethnicities would be due to God and Nature marking out "the appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands," quite possibly according to their work. There's nothing against races rising or falling according to their own instinct for self-destruction, or whether they follow it.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                Okay, this is an honest question. In my admitted ignorance of the subject of human creation, I'd like the experts in here to school me on how human creation doesn't lead to the conclusion of superior and inferior ethnicities. IOW, I'm totally ignorant of how creationism explains the origin of ethnicities, so explain to me in layman's terms how certain races of people being genetically inferior (intellectually, physically, etc.) to other races is erroneous in the context of human creation.
                The above is pure, unadulterated nonsense that demonstrates total ignorance of Biblical Creationism. Now, if you were talking about Creationism as per Theistic Evolutionists then that's an entirely different ballgame. But as far as Biblical Creationism is concerned, there is no - zero, zilch, nada - "genetically inferior (intellectually, physically, etc.) race". We are all of the same blood - direct descendants of the first couple, Adam and Eve. That is what is contained in Scripture and that's it!

                Jorge

                Comment


                • #9
                  In recent years science has been able to demonstrate that humans are remarkably homogeneous with wider variations seen within so-called races than between them. This means that all humans are only one biological race which has led modern biologists to conclude that race isn't a valid biological classification.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jorge View Post
                    The above is pure, unadulterated nonsense that demonstrates total ignorance of Biblical Creationism. Now, if you were talking about Creationism as per Theistic Evolutionists then that's an entirely different ballgame. But as far as Biblical Creationism is concerned, there is no - zero, zilch, nada - "genetically inferior (intellectually, physically, etc.) race". We are all of the same blood - direct descendants of the first couple, Adam and Eve. That is what is contained in Scripture and that's it!

                    Jorge
                    As the quote of the Father of the modern YEC movement, Henry Morris, provided in the third post demonstrates, he was saying in the 1990s that "Hamites, especially the Negroes" possess "a genetic character concerned mainly with mundane matters" and that they they don't have the "intellectual and philosophical acumen of the Japhethites." IOW, "the earth’s ‘colored’ races" - "especially the Negroes" - are intellectually inferior to the "Japhethites" (who Wikipedia informs us are "'white people' (the Caucasian race)"[1]

                    Interestingly, over on another forum that I post on there are a couple of YECs who adamantly disagree with Darwin's assessment that all of humanity constitutes one species that descended from a shared, common ancestor (that we are all the same blood). One in particular, who is always proclaiming that Darwin was a racist bigot and that evolution leads to racism, immediately declared that "Darwin was wrong. His ancient views are still popular with the science lightweights" and started blathering on about how the "evo lifestyle is species confused" when I pointed this out.





                    1 AnswersinGenesis' (AiG - the largest YEC organization) Creation "museum" seems to agrees with the Japhethites being equivalent to "'white people' (the Caucasian race)" as can be seen by this chart displayed there


                    Further, in the Amarillo, Texas Independent School District they use a chart as instructional material called "Racial Origins Traced from Noah" in classes concerning the impact of the Bible on history which declares that it's possible to identify which of Noah's three sons begat various racial and ethnic groups. According to this chart, "Western Europeans" and "Caucasians" are descendants of Japeth. A test question demonstrates that students were expected to know the chart, asking: “Shem is the father of a) most Germanic races B) the Jewish people C) all African people.”
                    Last edited by rogue06; 02-15-2014, 12:41 PM.

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      As the quote of the Father of the modern YEC movement, Henry Morris, provided in the third post demonstrates, he was saying in the 1990s that "Hamites, especially the Negroes" possess "a genetic character concerned mainly with mundane matters" and that they they don't have the "intellectual and philosophical acumen of the Japhethites." IOW, "the earth’s ‘colored’ races" - "especially the Negroes" - are intellectually inferior to the "Japhethites" (who Wikipedia informs us are "'white people' (the Caucasian race)"[1]

                      Interestingly, over on another forum that I post on there are a couple of YECs who adamantly disagree with Darwin's assessment that all of humanity constitutes one species that descended from a shared, common ancestor (that we are all the same blood). One in particular, who is always proclaiming that Darwin was a racist bigot and that evolution leads to racism, immediately declared that "Darwin was wrong. His ancient views are still popular with the science lightweights" and started blathering on about how the "evo lifestyle is species confused" when I pointed this out.





                      1 AnswersinGenesis' (AiG - the largest YEC organization) Creation "museum" seems to agrees with the Japhethites being equivalent to "'white people' (the Caucasian race)" as can be seen by this chart displayed there


                      Further, in the Amarillo, Texas Independent School District they use a chart as instructional material called "Racial Origins Traced from Noah" in classes concerning the impact of the Bible on history which declares that it's possible to identify which of Noah's three sons begat various racial and ethnic groups. According to this chart, "Western Europeans" and "Caucasians" are descendants of Japeth. A test question demonstrates that students were expected to know the chart, asking: “Shem is the father of a) most Germanic races B) the Jewish people C) all African people.”
                      Racism and the concept of inferior races revealed from the YEC Christian perspective.
                      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                      go with the flow the river knows . . .

                      Frank

                      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Racism and the concept of inferior races revealed from the YEC Christian perspective.
                        When you say something this idiotically disconnected from the text cited, you really need to put it in all-caps and add several exclamation points.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Is the bible racist against black people, because it says Cain was not a very good farmer after his curse?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Supposedly Greece was never effected by a massive wave of Semites according to that chart. It is one of the chart's biggest mistakes.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Omniskeptical View Post
                              Is the bible racist against black people, because it says Cain was not a very good farmer after his curse?
                              There is no racism in that sense in the bible. Racism was invented relatively recently by Christians wanting to rationalise trading and keeping slaves, and they used the Bible, especially the curse of Ham, to show that there were (at least) two races, and it was only right and proper that the white man should keep the black man as a slave.

                              http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/01/ar...rationale.html
                              http://www.darronsmith.com/2012/11/u...terpretations/
                              My Blog: http://oncreationism.blogspot.co.uk/

                              Comment

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