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  • #16
    Originally posted by Tassman View Post
    And the fruit is traditionally thought to have been an apple not a giant blackberry.
    I have pictorial evidence to the contrary:

    adam-fruit.jpg
    "When the Western world accepted Christianity, Caesar conquered; and the received text of Western theology was edited by his lawyers…. The brief Galilean vision of humility flickered throughout the ages, uncertainly…. But the deeper idolatry, of the fashioning of God in the image of the Egyptian, Persian, and Roman imperial rulers, was retained. The Church gave unto God the attributes which belonged exclusively to Caesar."

    — Alfred North Whitehead

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Duragizer View Post
      I have pictorial evidence to the contrary:

      [ATTACH=CONFIG]8255[/ATTACH]
      Ah, I bow to your superior knowledge.
      “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Tassman View Post
        Talking "legged snake-men", no less, as "True Biblical Christian seer makes clear with his Genesis quote. And the fruit is traditionally thought to have been an apple not a giant blackberry. This is the 'Word of God' so it's important to get it right.
        Actually some believe it was a fig or a date. I would be more tempted with rich ripe figs or dates than apples.
        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

        go with the flow the river knows . . .

        Frank

        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
          Actually some believe it was a fig or a date. I would be more tempted with rich ripe figs or dates than apples.
          Various different fruits have been suggested by a variety of sources. For instance, Zohar (a collection of commentaries on the Torah that are the underlying work of Jewish mystical school of thought known as Kabbalah) suggests that it is grapes and that Noah planted grapes upon leaving the Ark in an attempt to rectify the sin of the forbidden fruit.

          Rabbi Meir "the miracle maker" or "Master of the Miracle," who is considered to be the greatest of the Tannaim (Rabbinic sages whose views are recorded in the Mishnah and the third most frequently mentioned sage in that work), was a proponent of this view. Likewise the midrash of Bereishis Rabah states that the fruit was grape. Both seem to suggest that it was squeezed grapes or wine.

          The primary objection to it is that grapes grow on vines rather than trees but advocates of the idea point to Judges 9 that lists among the types of tree a vine tree as well as Ezekiel 15 (in the KJV translation at least).

          Here is an article in support of the grape hypothesis: http://www.godandculture.com/blog/tr...orbidden-fruit

          One fruit that has become a popular contender in recent years has been the pomegranate although many others have been put forward including olives, figs, citrons, carobs and pears. Even some very decidedly non-fruits like mushrooms and wheat.

          One reason that some believe the apple became a popular choice is based upon either a misunderstanding of or deliberate the pun on the Latin malum, which means both "apple" (mālum) and "evil" (mălum).

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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          • #20
            Source: Four-legged snake fossil sparks legal investigation


            Brazilian authorities are looking into whether the specimen was exported illegally.

            A unique fossil of a four-legged snake that created a scientific sensation in July is now provoking a legal dispute. Brazilian authorities are opening an investigation into whether the fossil was taken out of their country illegally and should therefore be repatriated.

            For some palaeontologists, the investigation revives a long-standing debate: how much of a responsibility researchers and scientific journals have to uphold the legality of the specimens on which they report — perhaps by refusing to publish work on fossils potentially obtained through illegal means, or by informing national authorities of suspicions over a fossil's provenance. But others say that taking such a cautious approach could leave important fossils languishing in obscurity in private collections around the world.

            Palaeobiologist David Martill of the University of Portsmouth, UK, first spotted the snake specimen (Tetrapodophis amplectus) in a private collection in a museum in Solnhofen, Germany, in 2012. Brazil made it illegal in 1942 to sell or export fossils without governmental permission; so it seems possible that the fossil was carried illegally across borders. “We will formalize a request for investigation with the Brazilian Federal Police, in order to ascertain how this fossil specimen left Brazil,” says Felipe Chaves, head of the fossil division of the Brazilian National Department of Mineral Production in Brasilia. “We know some details that merit being investigated,” he adds — but he declined to say more. The museum did not reply to Nature’s requests for comment.


            Source

            © Copyright Original Source



            Story continues at link above.

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              olives


              If the forbidden fruit was an olive there would never have been a fall.

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              • #22




                A more recent discovery in the La Buitrera Paleontological Area in northern Patagonia, Argentina has provided researchers with remarkably well-preserved skulls that has added yet another new piece to the puzzle of snake evolution.

                One prominent theory has been that snakes evolved from a blind, burrowing lizard ancestor with the tiny, worm-like, small-mouthed burrowing Scolecophidia (a.k.a., blind or ribbon snakes) thought to be the most primitive of the extant snakes.

                But high-resolution (CT) scanning and light microscopy of the new discoveries reveal that the skulls of Najash were nothing like those of scolecophidian snakes. Instead, Najash possessed large mouths along with some of the mobile skull joints that are typical of most modern snakes. And yet they also still retained some bony skull features of more typical lizards.

                For example, unlike their modern descendants Najash still a well-developed jugal bone (cheekbone) something found in most reptiles, amphibians as well as birds. Also, its middle ear is intermediate between that of lizards and extant snakes.

                The team, which was headed by Fernando F. Garberoglio at Universidad Maimónides in Buenos Aires, Argentina, also concluded these fossils show that early snakes retained their small but perfectly formed hindlimbs for tens of millions of years, diversifying into a wide range of terrestrial, burrowing and aquatic niches before the origin of modern snakes which are for the most part, completely limbless.

                Source: An ancient snake's cheekbone sheds light on evolution of modern snake skulls


                New research from a collaboration between Argentinian and University of Alberta palaeontologists adds a new piece to the puzzle of snake evolution.

                The researchers examined a strikingly well-preserved fossil of the rear-limbed snake Najash rionegrina, found in Argentina. The study shows that nearly 100 million years ago, these legged snakes still had a cheekbone -- also known as a jugal bone -- that has all but disappeared in their modern descendants.

                "Our findings support the idea that the ancestors of modern snakes were big-bodied and big-mouthed -- instead of small burrowing forms as previously thought," explained Fernando Garberoglio, from the Fundación Azara at Universidad Maimónides, in Buenos Aires, Argentina and lead author on the study. "The study also reveals that early snakes retained their hindlimbs for an extended period of time before the origin of modern snakes which are for the most part, completely limbless."

                For decades, paleontologists' understanding of snake evolution was hampered by the limited fossil record. The new fossils presented in this study are crucial for reconstructing the early steps in the evolutionary history of modern snakes.

                "This research revolutionizes our understanding of the jugal bone in snake and non-snake lizards," said Michael Caldwell, professor in the Department of Biological Sciences and Earth and Atmospheric Sciences, and a co-author on the study. "After 160 years of getting it wrong, this paper corrects this very important feature based not on guesswork, but on empirical evidence."

                The nearly 100 million year old fossil snakes described in this study, found in Northern Patagonia, are closely related to an ancient lineage of snakes that populated the southern hemisphere continents of Gondwana, and appear to be related to only a small number of obscure, modern snakes. The researchers used micro-computed tomography (micro-CT) scanning to visualize the skull structures within the specimen, examining the pathways of nerves and blood vessels as well as the skeletal structure that would be otherwise impossible to see without damaging the fossil.

                "This research is critical to understanding the evolution of the skulls of modern and ancient snakes," added Caldwell.



                Source

                © Copyright Original Source



                The entire paper, New skulls and skeletons of the Cretaceous legged snake Najash, and the evolution of the modern snake body plan, is available online (just click the hyperlink). Here is the abstract:

                Abstract

                Snakes represent one of the most dramatic examples of the evolutionary versatility of the vertebrate body plan, including body elongation, limb loss, and skull kinesis. However, understanding the earliest steps toward the acquisition of these remarkable adaptations is hampered by the very limited fossil record of early snakes. Here, we shed light on the acquisition of the snake body plan using micro–computed tomography scans of the first three-dimensionally preserved skulls of the legged snake Najash and a new phylogenetic hypothesis. These findings elucidate the initial sequence of bone loss that gave origin to the modern snake skull. Morphological and molecular analyses including the new cranial data provide robust support for an extensive basal radiation of early snakes with hindlimbs and pelves, demonstrating that this intermediate morphology was not merely a transient phase between limbed and limbless body plans.


                And course a couple cool pix








                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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