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Evolution in action

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  • Evolution in action

    http://news.sciencemag.org/biology/2...k-human-genome

    And here, once again, we see that evolution is not a process from "inferior" to "superior," but simply genetic variation and natural selection.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Outis View Post
    http://news.sciencemag.org/biology/2...k-human-genome

    And here, once again, we see that evolution is not a process from "inferior" to "superior," but simply genetic variation and natural selection.
    So if a hominid species goes extinct doesn't that make that species inferior to those that didn't?
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Outis View Post
      http://news.sciencemag.org/biology/2...k-human-genome

      And here, once again, we see that evolution is not a process from "inferior" to "superior," but simply genetic variation and natural selection.
      Neat!!! Nice source.
      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

      go with the flow the river knows . . .

      Frank

      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by seer View Post
        So if a hominid species goes extinct doesn't that make that species inferior to those that didn't?
        If it takes place competing in the same environment, yes.
        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

        go with the flow the river knows . . .

        Frank

        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
          If it takes place competing in the same environment, yes.
          But ONLY within the context of that environment. It does not make the species that went extinct objectively inferior--it is simply a consequence of not being adapted to the environment.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Outis View Post
            But ONLY within the context of that environment. It does not make the species that went extinct objectively inferior--it is simply a consequence of not being adapted to the environment.
            Yes, the only objective sense of superiority or inferiority in the case of evolution would be success or failure of competing within that environment. It would be the consequence of how well the species would be adapted to an environment.
            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

            go with the flow the river knows . . .

            Frank

            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

            Comment


            • #7
              Some adaptations are objectively superior. Immunity to the Black Death is one of them.
              "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

              There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                Some adaptations are objectively superior. Immunity to the Black Death is one of them.
                It wasn't objectively superior for the Yersinia pestis bacillus which used humans as its host.

                Everything is relative.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                  Some adaptations are objectively superior. Immunity to the Black Death is one of them.
                  Immunity to the Black Death is only "superior" in a context where Y. pestis exists. But the adaptation to plague comes at a price--in this case, an increased vulnerability to auto-immune diseases.

                  Sickle-cell anemia is a similar situation. By itself, it is maladaptive; in an area that has malaria, sickle-cell offers partial immunity and a reduction of symptoms if infection occurs.

                  Not all mutational changes are trade-offs. But none of them are objectively superior or inferior.
                  Last edited by Outis; 02-09-2014, 09:30 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Outis View Post
                    Immunity to the Black Death is only "superior" in a context where B. pestis exists. But the adaptation to plague comes at a price--in this case, an increased vulnerability to auto-immune diseases.
                    Do you have a source for this?

                    Sickle-cell anemia is a similar situation. By itself, it is maladaptive; in an area that has malaria, sickle-cell offers partial immunity and a reduction of symptoms if infection occurs.
                    Not quite.

                    Not all mutational changes are trade-offs. But none of them are objectively superior or inferior.
                    A mutation with a benefit and no trade-offs is objectively superior. Likewise, a bad mutation with no positive trade-offs is objectively inferior.
                    "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                    There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                      Do you have a source for this?
                      Did you read the article?

                      No, not quite. DO you always remember things perfectly? Do you never make errors?

                      A mutation with a benefit and no trade-offs is objectively superior. Likewise, a bad mutation with no positive trade-offs is objectively inferior.
                      To your individual evaluation, perhaps. Your evaluation, however, is definitive only of your personal opinions, not of the science.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by seer View Post
                        So if a hominid species goes extinct doesn't that make that species inferior to those that didn't?
                        Yes, if "inferior" means less adapted to an ecological niche than some other species. If "superior" means ability to adapt to niches and an unbroken genealogy, then Prokaryota wins the Domain Game.

                        What's YOUR criterion for superiority?

                        Every human group has been adapted to its ecological niche determined by geography and climatology. If you define superiority as the ability to make neat and complicated gadgets then the Euroasians win the "race" wars. The !Kung Bushman would disagree with you as per "The gods must be crazy."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Outis View Post
                          Did you read the article?

                          No, not quite. DO you always remember things perfectly? Do you never make errors?
                          No. For example I didn't remember the bit about auto-immune susceptibility in the OP, probably because it wasn't clear whether the susceptibility is increased or decreased. It's not even clear whether the rheumatoid arthritis related genes are the product of black death selection or something else (something the article itself notes).

                          To your individual evaluation, perhaps. Your evaluation, however, is definitive only of your personal opinions, not of the science.
                          Or I can do basic math.
                          "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                          There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                            No. For example I didn't remember the bit about auto-immune susceptibility in the OP, probably because it wasn't clear whether the susceptibility is increased or decreased. It's not even clear whether the rheumatoid arthritis related genes are the product of black death selection or something else (something the article itself notes).
                            Well and good.

                            Or I can do basic math.
                            But not basic biology. Something that is adaptive (with no negative tradeoffs) in one environment can be maladaptive in another environment. Insulin resistance is a classic example. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23260798

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Outis View Post
                              But not basic biology. Something that is adaptive (with no negative tradeoffs) in one environment can be maladaptive in another environment. Insulin resistance is a classic example. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23260798
                              If it's maladaptive in another environment then it's not really with no negative tradeoffs. And if traits are generally useful but maladaptive in an environment I have no reason to interact with (like swimming in lava) then it's still objectively superior.

                              Your example is also pretty poor considering modern humans have more control over their environment than ever before. If anything's maladaptive, it's the lack of self control.
                              "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                              There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                              Comment

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