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Kansas fluoride bill

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Outis View Post
    Makes perfect sense. However, do be careful, even after they reach the age of three, with flavored fluoridated tooth care products. Some kids ingest them and get sick. THe biggest symptom is GI upset--affects that would damage bone or teeth usually take chronic doses of above safe levels.



    In the case of some, like Joe Mercola, it's because he's trying to sell you his snake oil. (References available upon request, or you can look him up on Wikipedia or Rationalwiki.)
    You've never seen kiddie tooth paste? There's one regarded for age's 0-3 with no flouride and one for age's three to 5 with a child appropriate amount of flouride (made by orajel dentist's use it, and its safe if a child swallows a negligable amount) and then there's the 5 to 10 age appropriate toothpaste. plus the yearly flouride treatments dentists use at their discretion and with age based levels. Again standard of care. That's normal and appropriate.
    I think makers of age appropriate toothpastes include orajel, tom's of maine, jason, colgate and spry. It works well. Also the ADA reccommends that children under 6 be supervised if using flouride toothpaste. Again standard of care and general well being. Don't swallow a bottle of toothpaste as an adult or a child. that's just dumb. brush and spit.
    A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
    George Bernard Shaw

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Catholicity View Post
      You've never seen kiddie tooth paste?
      My children are all grown. Such things are behind me.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Outis View Post
        My children are all grown. Such things are behind me.
        Mine are not.
        A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
        George Bernard Shaw

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        • #19
          It's a Commie.. err.. Terrorist plot!!!

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          • #20
            Rogue, One should actually do a google search before ridiculing something. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3491930/

            Note that this is from the National Institude of health.

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            • #21
              I love you Glenn (of course in a strictly platonic way)
              The State. Ideas so good they have to be mandatory.

              sigpic

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              • #22
                Originally posted by grmorton View Post
                Rogue, One should actually do a google search before ridiculing something. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3491930/

                Note that this is from the National Institude of health.
                glen welcome back!!! good reference.
                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                Frank

                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Outis View Post
                  Sounds like the folks in Lawrence have been listening to Joe Mercola. Try this: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/...n-bad-science/
                  Joe or Harvard maybe.
                  "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                    I've just been reading about the proposed bill in my state that would require a public warning to communities served by fluoridated water that there is a demonstrated link between fluoride and lower IQ in children. I seem inclined to view this with suspicion as I am not sure I even believe in the legitimacy of IQ to begin with, and it seems some dentists view this as on the level of a conspiracy theory. I thought I would run the issue by some of those with more of a science background to get more of an informed view on the issue.

                    http://www.kansascity.com/2014/02/09...-fluoride.html
                    Here in Oz, South Australia specifically, we've had flouride in our water for as long as I can remember. I've lost my hair, and have false teeth and Jorge thinks I'm stupid.

                    As for the "as long as I can remember", I cannot remember how long ago that was.

                    This information might help the consipracy theorists, so don't let them know it. :)
                    Last edited by rwatts; 02-16-2014, 11:59 PM.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by grmorton View Post
                      Rogue, One should actually do a google search before ridiculing something. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3491930/

                      Note that this is from the National Institude of health.
                      From that paper:
                      The estimated decrease in average IQ associated with fluoride exposure based on our analysis may seem small and may be within the measurement error of IQ testing. However, as research on other neurotoxicants has shown, a shift to the left of IQ distributions in a population will have substantial impacts, especially among those in the high and low ranges of the IQ distribution (Bellinger 2007).

                      Our review cannot be used to derive an exposure limit, because the actual exposures of the individual children are not known. Misclassification of children in both high- and low-exposure groups may have occurred if the children were drinking water from other sources (e.g., at school or in the field).

                      ...

                      Still, each of the articles reviewed had deficiencies, in some cases rather serious ones, that limit the conclusions that can be drawn. However, most deficiencies relate to the reporting of where key information was missing. The fact that some aspects of the study were not reported limits the extent to which the available reports allow a firm conclusion. Some methodological limitations were also noted.

                      ...

                      Although the studies were generally of insufficient quality, the consistency of their findings adds support to existing evidence of fluoride-associated cognitive deficits, and suggests that potential developmental neurotoxicity of fluoride should be a high research priority.

                      ...

                      In conclusion, our results support the possibility of adverse effects of fluoride exposures on children’s neurodevelopment. Future research should formally evaluate dose–response relations based on individual-level measures of exposure over time, including more precise prenatal exposure assessment and more extensive standardized measures of neurobehavioral performance, in addition to improving assessment and control of potential confounders.
                      Yeah...
                      I'm not here anymore.

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                      • #26
                        Interesting. So the best guess based on the paper Glenn references is about a 0.5 degradation in average IQ. IOW, if the average population in a non-floride area has an IQ of 100, we could expect the average IQ in an area using fluoride to be about 99.5, with unspecified larger effects at the extremes. That is, the percentage of a population that is above genius level would decrease by more than .5%, and the number of people below the level identified as mentally handicapped would increase by more than .5%

                        Seems like something worth doing serious study to understand.


                        Jim
                        He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

                        "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by grmorton View Post
                          Rogue, One should actually do a google search before ridiculing something. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3491930/

                          Note that this is from the National Institude of health.
                          Can't a guy make a Dihydrogen Monoxide (DHMO) joke around here?

                          Glad to see you around and I hope you're doing well.

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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                          • #28
                            Update: The bill has died in committee.
                            http://www.kansascity.com/2014/02/24...bills-run.html
                            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by grmorton View Post
                              Rogue, One should actually do a google search before ridiculing something. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3491930/

                              Note that this is from the National Institude of health.
                              It's probably important to note that this study is dealing with high-exposure fluoridation, where the subjects were potentially exposed up to almost three times the fluoride concentration allowed in drinking water for US children:

                              "The exposed groups had access to drinking water with fluoride concentrations up to 11.5 mg/L (Wang SX et al. 2007); thus, in many cases concentrations were above the levels recommended (0.7–1.2 mg/L; DHHS) or allowed in public drinking water (4.0 mg/L; U.S. EPA) in the United States (U.S. EPA 2011)."

                              If the discussion is revolving around whether fluoridation in US drinking water lowers IQ, this study won't help out much, except to say that it's possible at levels far in excess of what's allowed over here.

                              —Sam
                              "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by grmorton View Post
                                Rogue, One should actually do a google search before ridiculing something. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3491930/

                                Note that this is from the National Institude of health.
                                Note that it's not actually "from" the NIH; it's just hosted there. It originally appeared in the journal Environmental Health Perspectives. However, a few years back, the NIH adopted an open access policy on research from people it funded: they have one year to make any publications available to the public. The NIH offers to host the publications, which is why this PDF appears at the NIH site.

                                Generally, this is a Very Good Thing: the public gets full access to the research it paid for. However, that also means the public needs to do due diligence regarding research quality, validity of the conclusions, etc., and that the NIH does not endorse all findings that come out of the research it funds. Sam's comment immediately above is the sort of caution we need to exercise when looking at this materia.
                                "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

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