Announcement

Collapse

Natural Science 301 Guidelines

This is an open forum area for all members for discussions on all issues of science and origins. This area will and does get volatile at times, but we ask that it be kept to a dull roar, and moderators will intervene to keep the peace if necessary. This means obvious trolling and flaming that becomes a problem will be dealt with, and you might find yourself in the doghouse.

As usual, Tweb rules apply. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

Naomi Oreskes, the "denialists" bane

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Naomi Oreskes, the "denialists" bane

    Naomi Oreskes, a Lightning Rod in a Changing Climate
    Formally, she is a historian of science. Informally, this diminutive woman has become a boxer, throwing herself into a messy public arena that many career-minded climate scientists try to avoid.

    She helps raise money to defend researchers targeted for criticism by climate change denialists. She has become a heroine to activist college students, supporting their demand that universities and other institutions divest from fossil fuels. Climatologists, though often reluctant themselves to get into fights, have showered her with praise for being willing to do it.

    This is what we'd call a "feature article" back in journalism class, as differentiated from a "news article," or, with a slightly disdainful crinkling of the nose, an "editorial." It's not "true" journalism, but it's closer to journalism than an opinion piece. Justin Gillis, the author, is a journalist, a news reporter focused on environmental stories.

    I've been following climate science since the late 80s, watching the evolution of its coverage in the popular press from curiosity to mainstream scientific consensus and the reactionary conspiracy theories spawned by that consensus.

    I've taken to substituting the term "naysayer" for "denialist" because of the voiced sensibilities of those who see echoes of "Holocaust denialism" in the term. The use here, in the NYTimes, however, has made me pause and reconsider. The word "denialist" shows up 43 times in a search among all articles from 1851, but the oldest reference dates merely to 2000 in a reference to H.I.V. ''denialists." It's clear though that in the past few years, its reference to climate skeptics has become mainstream. So it's time now to stop appeasing the recalcitrant. They are denialists, and if the term offends them, that's the price they pay.

    Some truths should hurt.

  • #2
    Absolutely.

    It's no different than a creationist stating their opinion is on equal grounds of validity as evolutionary biology. The people that deny simply do so because of politics and nothing else. They don't care about the research, nothing will change their mind, and it's waste of time to talk to them.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by lao tzu View Post
      Naomi Oreskes, a Lightning Rod in a Changing Climate
      Formally, she is a historian of science. Informally, this diminutive woman has become a boxer, throwing herself into a messy public arena that many career-minded climate scientists try to avoid.

      She helps raise money to defend researchers targeted for criticism by climate change denialists. She has become a heroine to activist college students, supporting their demand that universities and other institutions divest from fossil fuels. Climatologists, though often reluctant themselves to get into fights, have showered her with praise for being willing to do it.

      This is what we'd call a "feature article" back in journalism class, as differentiated from a "news article," or, with a slightly disdainful crinkling of the nose, an "editorial." It's not "true" journalism, but it's closer to journalism than an opinion piece. Justin Gillis, the author, is a journalist, a news reporter focused on environmental stories.

      I've been following climate science since the late 80s, watching the evolution of its coverage in the popular press from curiosity to mainstream scientific consensus and the reactionary conspiracy theories spawned by that consensus.

      I've taken to substituting the term "naysayer" for "denialist" because of the voiced sensibilities of those who see echoes of "Holocaust denialism" in the term. The use here, in the NYTimes, however, has made me pause and reconsider. The word "denialist" shows up 43 times in a search among all articles from 1851, but the oldest reference dates merely to 2000 in a reference to H.I.V. ''denialists." It's clear though that in the past few years, its reference to climate skeptics has become mainstream. So it's time now to stop appeasing the recalcitrant. They are denialists, and if the term offends them, that's the price they pay.

      Some truths should hurt.
      Yes, the first thing we must do is label, then demonize the label. Which is the first step in dehumanizing... Then it is easier to make them "pay the price" that they so richly deserve...
      Last edited by seer; 06-16-2015, 12:49 PM.
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • #4
        Seems fitting, she has a face that could bring about the next ice age. It's nice to see the New York Times taking a break from coordinating with partisan organizations to bring us up to date information on Marco Rubio's traffic tickets.
        "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

        There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
          Seems fitting, she has a face that could bring about the next ice age. It's nice to see the New York Times taking a break from coordinating with partisan organizations to bring us up to date information on Marco Rubio's traffic tickets.
          She needs a man...
          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by seer View Post
            Yes, the first thing we must do is label, then demonize the label. Which is the first step in dehumanizing... Then it is easier to make them "pay the price" that they so richly deserve...
            I think global warming is likely a reality, but...yeah, what you said.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by seer View Post
              She needs a man...
              Ah, that civil conversation from the poor persecuted climate change "skeptics".

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                I think global warming is likely a reality, but...yeah, what you said.
                When you go around smugly calling scientists politically motivated, link climate policy to communism/socialism, and repeat things that could be debunked by a simple search engine result you get mocked I'm afraid.

                Some things are basic education and keeping yourself informed, and have nothing to do with debate. Those who choose to remain uninformed and uneducated and have nerve to go around calling themselves the REAL experts deserve to a nasty label.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Sea of red View Post
                  When you go around smugly calling scientists politically motivated, link climate policy to communism/socialism, and repeat things that could be debunked by a simple search engine result you get mocked I'm afraid.

                  Some things are basic education and keeping yourself informed, and have nothing to do with debate. Those who choose to remain uninformed and uneducated and have nerve to go around calling themselves the REAL experts deserve to a nasty label.
                  Two wrongs...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Sea of red View Post
                    When you go around smugly calling scientists politically motivated
                    They are politically motivated (and in this case radically so, only a far left nutjob would align herself with student activists) and incompetent (let's face it, nobody dreams of becoming a climate scientist, it's something you do when you're not smart or skilled enough to do something more interesting, useful or profitable). In any areas where their paycheck is not dependent on producing easily verifiable work they can be safely ignored.
                    "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                    There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Sea of red View Post
                      When you go around smugly calling scientists politically motivated, link climate policy to communism/socialism, and repeat things that could be debunked by a simple search engine result you get mocked I'm afraid.

                      Some things are basic education and keeping yourself informed, and have nothing to do with debate. Those who choose to remain uninformed and uneducated and have nerve to go around calling themselves the REAL experts deserve to a nasty label.
                      If the elites on your side of the fence stopped flying around in private jets, getting chauffeured around in limos, meeting at five star hotels and living in mansions they might have some credibility. But they won't so they don't.
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                        They are politically motivated (and in this case radically so, only a far left nutjob would align herself with student activists) and incompetent (let's face it, nobody dreams of becoming a climate scientist, it's something you do when you're not smart or skilled enough to do something more interesting, useful or profitable). In any areas where their paycheck is not dependent on producing easily verifiable work they can be safely ignored.
                        You're pretty stupid even for Tweb. People are interested in different things and the study of the causes of climate and geophysics is certainly nothing to be ashamed of.

                        Things like the stock-market, farming, energy production, travel, and even war are all factored by long-term forecasts which people in authority rely on to make decisions.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by seer View Post
                          If the elites on your side of the fence stopped flying around in private jets, getting chauffeured around in limos, meeting at five star hotels and living in mansions they might have some credibility. But they won't so they don't.
                          Sounds like you've got issues outside of the science and focused more on personalities.

                          You're the one that has made it about politics.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Sea of red View Post
                            Sounds like you've got issues outside of the science and focused more on personalities.

                            You're the one that has made it about politics.
                            No, I'm making it about hypocrisy.
                            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by seer View Post
                              No, I'm making it about hypocrisy.
                              Which has nothing to do with the science.

                              What is your issue with the science?

                              Comment

                              Related Threads

                              Collapse

                              Topics Statistics Last Post
                              Started by lee_merrill, 11-23-2020, 10:25 PM
                              3 responses
                              30 views
                              1 like
                              Last Post Christianbookworm  
                              Started by rogue06, 11-22-2020, 08:25 AM
                              4 responses
                              58 views
                              3 likes
                              Last Post rogue06
                              by rogue06
                               
                              Started by TheLurch, 11-19-2020, 02:11 PM
                              1 response
                              30 views
                              1 like
                              Last Post rogue06
                              by rogue06
                               
                              Started by rogue06, 11-10-2020, 08:50 AM
                              0 responses
                              18 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post rogue06
                              by rogue06
                               
                              Started by shunyadragon, 11-09-2020, 06:36 PM
                              2 responses
                              17 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post shunyadragon  
                              Working...
                              X