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  • More "non-existent" evidence ...

    ""Papers like this do much to advance the field, by showing that fossils are more than 'just rocks', and opening the door to the possibility that materials persist in ancient fossils that were not thought possible only a few years ago," says Mary Schweitzer of North Carolina State University in Raleigh, who reported extracting blood from T. rex in 2009. "[It also] seems to indicate, like our own findings, that this is not necessarily an exceedingly rare occurrence.""

    We Biblical Creationists could have told you that it is "not necessarily a rare occurrence" because ... drum roll, please ... these creatures did NOT live / die "tens of millions of years ago" -- it's that simple!

    It would indeed be a rare - nay, an IMPOSSIBLE - occurrence if these findings were truly tens of millions of years old. But they're not, as we Biblical Creationists have been stating all along. Alas, the more of these things that are being discovered, the more back-pedaling has been taking place.

    Now they're asking, "Gee, I wonder how that could have happened?" Before they were loudly shouting from the rooftops, "IT CANNOT HAPPEN!!! The laws of physics and chemistry absolutely prohibit it!" People were cautioned against even suggesting an obvious explanation (NO mega-years!); several people even lost their jobs. Lil' Mary (commenting above) was shaking in her booties when she discovered the blood and tissue some years back. She remained a good-little Evolutionist, toeing the party line by stating her findings in "acceptable" language and thus retained her job. Others bit the big one by not following the Evo-Rules.

    And they're right - the laws of physics and chemistry DO prohibit it IF AND ONLY IF they are "tens of millions of years" old. If only thousands of years have elapsed then these findings are nothing to get excited about.

    Of course, the Evo-Faithful, Biblical Deniers will never accept any of this and will concoct numerous "explanations" to retain their religious (not scientific) beliefs but thankfully that is their problem, not mine.

    Complete article here: http://www.newscientist.com/article/...ml#.VXcnn9LbLV

    Jorge

  • #2
    So what exactly is your evidence that Mary Schweitzer "was shaking in her booties when she discovered the blood and tissue some years back" aside from just "knowing" it must be so? YECs have spread many false rumors about her and her work when it was published. Those include disseminating false stories about her being persecuted. One notable example came from a YEC known as nephiliumfree, who posts evolution denialism videos on YouTube, and declared that she had been fired as a result. Schweitzer personally responded "If they fired me, why did they give me a $300,000 grant to investigate further?"

    As to misrepresenting her work, Schweitzer, who is an evangelical who describes herself as "a complete and total Christian," and is a member of the American Scientific Affiliation[1], has stated that she has begun to take it personally when evolution deniers misrepresent her work saying that, "They twist your words and they manipulate your data."

    Interestingly, Schweitzer and her team discovered a mechanism that may account for how the "soft tissue" was preserved for so long a period of time back in 2013 (do try to keep up Jorge).

    Source: A role for iron and oxygen chemistry in preserving soft tissues, cells and molecules from deep time


    Abstract

    The persistence of original soft tissues in Mesozoic fossil bone is not explained by current chemical degradation models. We identified iron particles (goethite-αFeO(OH)) associated with soft tissues recovered from two Mesozoic dinosaurs, using transmission electron microscopy, electron energy loss spectroscopy, micro-X-ray diffraction and Fe micro-X-ray absorption near-edge structure. Iron chelators increased fossil tissue immunoreactivity to multiple antibodies dramatically, suggesting a role for iron in both preserving and masking proteins in fossil tissues...


    Source

    *The entire paper is available at the above link*

    © Copyright Original Source



    The take-away here is that iron nanoparticles associated with dinosaur blood vessels were identified (the researchers think that they originated from the blood and muscle cells during decay) and moreover were able to identify iron-facilitated reactions that contribute to preservation. IOW, iron may indeed play an important role in preserving ancient tissues within dinosaur fossils before it can decay.

    As Schweitzer explained:
    "Iron is necessary for survival, but it's also highly reactive and destructive in living tissues, which is why our bodies have proteins that transport iron molecules to where they are needed but protect us from unwanted reactions at the same time. When we die, that protective mechanism breaks down and the iron is turned loose on our tissues -- and that destructive process can act in much the same way formaldehyde does to preserve the tissues and proteins."

    Because both birds and crocodiles -- the closest living relatives of the dinosaurs -- have large, nucleated red blood cells with more hemoglobin per cell than mammals, meaning that it is highly likely that dinosaur's red blood cells also contained much more hemoglobin, which would therefore act to amplify its preserving effect on tissue.

    Finally, if the hemoglobin were contained in a bone in an arid sandy environment (as indicated by the type of sandstone it was encased in), keeping it dry and insulated from microbes, preservation becomes even more likely.















    1. a Christian religious organization of scientists whose stated purpose is "to investigate any area relating Christian faith and science."

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • #3
      Too bad Jorge isn't a Jehovah's Witness. His proficiency at finding countless ways to say the same thing over-and-over again would prove invaluable to their magazine articles.
      "When the Western world accepted Christianity, Caesar conquered; and the received text of Western theology was edited by his lawyers…. The brief Galilean vision of humility flickered throughout the ages, uncertainly…. But the deeper idolatry, of the fashioning of God in the image of the Egyptian, Persian, and Roman imperial rulers, was retained. The Church gave unto God the attributes which belonged exclusively to Caesar."

      — Alfred North Whitehead

      Comment


      • #4
        I don't think methodological science (or "methodological naturalism") is meant to take down Christianity or the Bible, even though it requires its premises to have nothing to say regarding what the Creator did or is doing now.


        Amen to Rogue's report that Mary S and her coworkers may have a good explanation of how long certain tissues can last in fossils. Jorge should, I think, try to show why the explanation is not good.
        The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

        [T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

        Comment


        • #5
          This has already been addressed, countless times, and you ignored it and keep giving your same tired refuted garbage. Over and over again. It is almost as if you don't care about the truth in the least and are just here to post your nonsense...
          "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
          GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Duragizer View Post
            Too bad Jorge isn't a Jehovah's Witness. His proficiency at finding countless ways to say the same thing over-and-over again would prove invaluable to their magazine articles.
            .............................

            Jorge

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              So what exactly is your evidence that Mary Schweitzer "was shaking in her booties when she discovered the blood and tissue some years back" aside from just "knowing" it must be so? YECs have spread many false rumors about her and her work when it was published. Those include disseminating false stories about her being persecuted. One notable example came from a YEC known as nephiliumfree, who posts evolution denialism videos on YouTube, and declared that she had been fired as a result. Schweitzer personally responded "If they fired me, why did they give me a $300,000 grant to investigate further?"

              As to misrepresenting her work, Schweitzer, who is an evangelical who describes herself as "a complete and total Christian," and is a member of the American Scientific Affiliation[1], has stated that she has begun to take it personally when evolution deniers misrepresent her work saying that, "They twist your words and they manipulate your data."

              Interestingly, Schweitzer and her team discovered a mechanism that may account for how the "soft tissue" was preserved for so long a period of time back in 2013 (do try to keep up Jorge).

              Source: A role for iron and oxygen chemistry in preserving soft tissues, cells and molecules from deep time


              Abstract

              The persistence of original soft tissues in Mesozoic fossil bone is not explained by current chemical degradation models. We identified iron particles (goethite-αFeO(OH)) associated with soft tissues recovered from two Mesozoic dinosaurs, using transmission electron microscopy, electron energy loss spectroscopy, micro-X-ray diffraction and Fe micro-X-ray absorption near-edge structure. Iron chelators increased fossil tissue immunoreactivity to multiple antibodies dramatically, suggesting a role for iron in both preserving and masking proteins in fossil tissues...


              Source

              *The entire paper is available at the above link*

              © Copyright Original Source



              The take-away here is that iron nanoparticles associated with dinosaur blood vessels were identified (the researchers think that they originated from the blood and muscle cells during decay) and moreover were able to identify iron-facilitated reactions that contribute to preservation. IOW, iron may indeed play an important role in preserving ancient tissues within dinosaur fossils before it can decay.

              As Schweitzer explained:
              "Iron is necessary for survival, but it's also highly reactive and destructive in living tissues, which is why our bodies have proteins that transport iron molecules to where they are needed but protect us from unwanted reactions at the same time. When we die, that protective mechanism breaks down and the iron is turned loose on our tissues -- and that destructive process can act in much the same way formaldehyde does to preserve the tissues and proteins."

              Because both birds and crocodiles -- the closest living relatives of the dinosaurs -- have large, nucleated red blood cells with more hemoglobin per cell than mammals, meaning that it is highly likely that dinosaur's red blood cells also contained much more hemoglobin, which would therefore act to amplify its preserving effect on tissue.

              Finally, if the hemoglobin were contained in a bone in an arid sandy environment (as indicated by the type of sandstone it was encased in), keeping it dry and insulated from microbes, preservation becomes even more likely.















              1. a Christian religious organization of scientists whose stated purpose is "to investigate any area relating Christian faith and science."
              Still using your "lawyer-like legalistic strategy", I see.

              No, I do not have pictures or a video of Mary "shaking in her booties". What I do have is common sense. The absolute "mystery" of blood and tissue lasting "tens of millions of years" is immediately resolved if one thing is removed - the "tens of millions of years". Did Mary mention this logical possibility, even as a passing remark? Nope, not at all. She did acknowledge that physics and chemistry indicated that these things shouldn't be possible. But she was cautioned by colleagues to watch her language and this she did very well. From "It can't happen" to "We need to find out HOW it happened". See, no matter how much evidence stacks up, they will not, they CANNOT, abandon their beliefs. It's not sound science; it's religious ideology.

              Jorge

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
                I don't think methodological science (or "methodological naturalism") is meant to take down Christianity or the Bible, even though it requires its premises to have nothing to say regarding what the Creator did or is doing now.
                When MN represents the operational version of Philosophical Naturalism - which it almost always does - then that is precisely its objective. Don't expect to ever hear an admission of such.


                Amen to Rogue's report that Mary S and her coworkers may have a good explanation of how long certain tissues can last in fossils. Jorge should, I think, try to show why the explanation is not good.
                A "good explanation"? You need to think about what "good" is. These people ALWAYS come up with some "explanation" - even if they have to fabricate it out of the hidden depths of their imaginations. Then, as long as it remains within the realm of pure Materialism, it is labeled "science". Think harder, TS.

                Jorge

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                  This has already been addressed, countless times, and you ignored it and keep giving your same tired refuted garbage. Over and over again. It is almost as if you don't care about the truth in the least and are just here to post your nonsense...
                  I had hoped and prayed that Terror had finally learned and reformed.
                  I guess I have to pray and hope some more.

                  Jorge

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jorge View Post
                    Still using your "lawyer-like legalistic strategy", I see.

                    No, I do not have pictures or a video of Mary "shaking in her booties". What I do have is common sense. The absolute "mystery" of blood and tissue lasting "tens of millions of years" is immediately resolved if one thing is removed - the "tens of millions of years". Did Mary mention this logical possibility, even as a passing remark? Nope, not at all. She did acknowledge that physics and chemistry indicated that these things shouldn't be possible. But she was cautioned by colleagues to watch her language and this she did very well. From "It can't happen" to "We need to find out HOW it happened". See, no matter how much evidence stacks up, they will not, they CANNOT, abandon their beliefs. It's not sound science; it's religious ideology.

                    Jorge
                    Speaking of evidence that is ignored,

                    What of the entirety of Rogue's post that you did not make bold and big? You just ignored all the substance and picked on what is simply a transition sentence from your post into the evidence he submitted.

                    Rogue presents a cogent logical argument, complete with supporting references coming directly from specific research. You did no such thing. So who is ignoring evidence here Jorge? Who is refusing to look carefully at evidence contrary to their beliefs?


                    Jim
                    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

                    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Jorge View Post
                      When MN represents the operational version of Philosophical Naturalism - which it almost always does - then that is precisely its objective. Don't expect to ever hear an admission of such.
                      Methodological naturalism is not opposed to Christianity. It is clearly opposed to young earthism. Two different things.
                      Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jorge View Post
                        Still using your "lawyer-like legalistic strategy", I see.

                        No, I do not have pictures or a video of Mary "shaking in her booties". What I do have is common sense.
                        But no evidence. Jorge made it up.
                        The absolute "mystery" of blood and tissue lasting "tens of millions of years" is immediately resolved if one thing is removed - the "tens of millions of years". Did Mary mention this logical possibility, even as a passing remark? Nope, not at all.
                        I bet Jorge has no evidence for that either.

                        Incidentally, the original paper does not specify an age for the specimen at all.

                        Oh, and Jorge is playing fast and loose with quotes as usual. Most of the 'quotes' in his posts aren't quotes at all, just things he wants people to have said.

                        Roy
                        Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                        mikewhitney: What if the speed of light changed when light is passing through water? ... I have 3 semesters of college Physics.

                        Mountain Man: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                        Mountain Man: … this is how liberals argue these days, with labels instead of ideas.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Jorge View Post
                          No, I do not have pictures or a video of Mary "shaking in her booties". What I do have is common sense.

                          Jorge
                          That would be the same common sense that told you there were no meteor / asteroid impact craters on Earth but that all those big craters like Barringer and Chicxulub were really made by giant gophers?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Roy View Post
                            Incidentally, the original paper does not specify an age for the specimen at all.
                            Is it not significant that the specimen is described as a Tyrannous Rex part?
                            The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

                            [T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                              Speaking of evidence that is ignored,

                              What of the entirety of Rogue's post that you did not make bold and big? You just ignored all the substance and picked on what is simply a transition sentence from your post into the evidence he submitted.

                              Rogue presents a cogent logical argument, complete with supporting references coming directly from specific research. You did no such thing. So who is ignoring evidence here Jorge? Who is refusing to look carefully at evidence contrary to their beliefs?


                              Jim
                              "... cogent logical argument ..." as defined in the New Age Dictionary.

                              Seriously, from my many years of swapping posts with you, you wouldn't know a "cogent logical argument" even if it bit you on the nose UNLESS that argument supported your personal religious views. 'Nuff said.

                              Jorge

                              Comment

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