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Best evidence for Intelligent Design yet?

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  • Best evidence for Intelligent Design yet?

    The Discovery Institute have released an article about a play, in which a fictional character is "working on a paper whose equations cast doubt on aspects of human evolution". It is just me who thinks that citing fictional characters in a play looks kind of desparate?

    http://www.evolutionnews.org/2015/05...s_e095981.html
    The play doesn't directly mention intelligent design.... But Stoppard's protagonist Hilary says at one point that she's working on a paper whose equations cast doubt on aspects of human evolution and specifically whether the conventional account allows sufficient time for it. By the end, she has announced that she is making plans to continue her research and studies at New York University...
    Who knows what the future holds for ID? Perhaps a play in which a character gets to actually publish ID research in a peer-reviewed journal?

    Meanwhile real science marches on.
    My Blog: http://oncreationism.blogspot.co.uk/

  • #2
    Originally posted by The Pixie View Post
    The Discovery Institute have released an article about a play, in which a fictional character is "working on a paper whose equations cast doubt on aspects of human evolution". It is just me who thinks that citing fictional characters in a play looks kind of desparate?

    http://www.evolutionnews.org/2015/05...s_e095981.html

    Who knows what the future holds for ID? Perhaps a play in which a character gets to actually publish ID research in a peer-reviewed journal?

    Meanwhile real science marches on.
    This is about the hard problem of consciousness, which is a real problem. First, this play takes its clues from the works of Thomas Nagel who is an atheist and not a proponent of intelligent design. Second, let me again quote another atheist in the field of neuroscientist, Dr. Sam Harris:

    The problem, however, is that no evidence for consciousness exists in the physical world.[6] Physical events are simply mute as to whether it is “like something” to be what they are. The only thing in this universe that attests to the existence of consciousness is consciousness itself; the only clue to subjectivity, as such, is subjectivity. Absolutely nothing about a brain, when surveyed as a physical system, suggests that it is a locus of experience. Were we not already brimming with consciousness ourselves, we would find no evidence of it in the physical universe—nor would we have any notion of the many experiential states that it gives rise to. The painfulness of pain, for instance, puts in an appearance only in consciousness. And no description of C-fibers or pain-avoiding behavior will bring the subjective reality into view.

    If we look for consciousness in the physical world, all we find are increasingly complex systems giving rise to increasingly complex behavior—which may or may not be attended by consciousness. The fact that the behavior of our fellow human beings persuades us that they are (more or less) conscious does not get us any closer to linking consciousness to physical events. Is a starfish conscious? A scientific account of the emergence of consciousness would answer this question. And it seems clear that we will not make any progress by drawing analogies between starfish behavior and our own. It is only in the presence of animals sufficiently like ourselves that our intuitions about (and attributions of) consciousness begin to crystallize. Is there “something that it is like” to be a cocker spaniel? Does it feel its pains and pleasures? Surely it must. How do we know? Behavior, analogy, parsimony.[7]

    Most scientists are confident that consciousness emerges from unconscious complexity. We have compelling reasons for believing this, because the only signs of consciousness we see in the universe are found in evolved organisms like ourselves. Nevertheless, this notion of emergence strikes me as nothing more than a restatement of a miracle. To say that consciousness emerged at some point in the evolution of life doesn’t give us an inkling of how it could emerge from unconscious processes, even in principle.
    http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/t...-consciousness
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • #3
      Desperation! A not so subtle anti-science play is referenced in a Discovery Institute article. Why?
      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

      go with the flow the river knows . . .

      Frank

      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by seer View Post
        This is about the hard problem of consciousness, which is a real problem. First, this play takes its clues from the works of Thomas Nagel who is an atheist and not a proponent of intelligent design. Second, let me again quote another atheist in the field of neuroscientist, Dr. Sam Harris:


        http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/t...-consciousness
        So I gather that play provides deeper insight into what the mind is and how it came to be. Or is it stuck at:-

        1) Atheists, not true Christian Christians, other theists, and secularists cannot explain the mind and how it came to be.

        2) But ID does, and

        3) Providing you don't ask us how ID explains it, then

        4) ID does explain it.

        ?
        Last edited by rwatts; 05-14-2015, 04:39 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by The Pixie View Post
          The Discovery Institute have released an article about a play, in which a fictional character is "working on a paper whose equations cast doubt on aspects of human evolution". It is just me who thinks that citing fictional characters in a play looks kind of desparate?

          http://www.evolutionnews.org/2015/05...s_e095981.html

          Who knows what the future holds for ID? Perhaps a play in which a character gets to actually publish ID research in a peer-reviewed journal?

          Meanwhile real science marches on.
          It is interesting how the appendix and tonsils don't have intelligent design.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by seer View Post
            This is about the hard problem of consciousness, which is a real problem.
            Ah, a gap in our knowledge. Quick, insert God into it! It might be gone soon.
            First, this play takes its clues from the works of Thomas Nagel who is an atheist and not a proponent of intelligent design.
            My bad.

            Perhaps one day the Discovery Institute will find some fiction about someone doing unpublished research that is based on the works of a proponent of intelligent design.

            Second, let me again quote another atheist in the field of neuroscientist, Dr. Sam Harris:
            Sure. What do you think it proves?

            He concludes (on the subsequent page:

            While we know many things about ourselves in anatomical, physiological, and evolutionary terms, we do not know why it is “like something” to be what we are. The fact that the universe is illuminated where you stand—that your thoughts and moods and sensations have a qualitative character—is a mystery, exceeded only by the mystery that there should be something rather than nothing in this universe. How is it that unconscious events can give rise to consciousness? Not only do we have no idea, but it seems impossible to imagine what sort of idea could fit in the space provided. Therefore, although science may ultimately show us how to truly maximize human well-being, it may still fail to dispel the fundamental mystery of our mental life. That doesn’t leave much scope for conventional religious doctrines, but it does offer a deep foundation (and motivation) for introspection. Many truths about ourselves will be discovered in consciousness directly, or not discovered at all.
            My Blog: http://oncreationism.blogspot.co.uk/

            Comment


            • #7
              It is interesting how the appendix and tonsils don't have intelligent design. But they do, and I can tell you what they are good for.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by The Pixie View Post
                Ah, a gap in our knowledge. Quick, insert God into it! It might be gone soon.

                My bad.

                Perhaps one day the Discovery Institute will find some fiction about someone doing unpublished research that is based on the works of a proponent of intelligent design.


                Sure. What do you think it proves?

                He concludes (on the subsequent page:

                While we know many things about ourselves in anatomical, physiological, and evolutionary terms, we do not know why it is “like something” to be what we are. The fact that the universe is illuminated where you stand—that your thoughts and moods and sensations have a qualitative character—is a mystery, exceeded only by the mystery that there should be something rather than nothing in this universe. How is it that unconscious events can give rise to consciousness? Not only do we have no idea, but it seems impossible to imagine what sort of idea could fit in the space provided. Therefore, although science may ultimately show us how to truly maximize human well-being, it may still fail to dispel the fundamental mystery of our mental life. That doesn’t leave much scope for conventional religious doctrines, but it does offer a deep foundation (and motivation) for introspection. Many truths about ourselves will be discovered in consciousness directly, or not discovered at all.
                Yes of course, Harris is an atheist. And it is also interesting that he said it doesn't leave much room for conventional religious doctrines. Does it leave room for unconventional religious doctrines?
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Omniskeptical View Post
                  It is interesting how the appendix and tonsils don't have intelligent design. But they do, and I can tell you what they are good for.
                  The appendix is an inbuilt self destruct mechanism?

                  Roy
                  Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                  mikewhitney: What if the speed of light changed when light is passing through water? ... I have 3 semesters of college Physics.

                  Mountain Man: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                  Mountain Man: … this is how liberals argue these days, with labels instead of ideas.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Roy View Post
                    The appendix is an inbuilt self destruct mechanism?

                    Roy
                    It meters how much clumping bacteria goes into the large intestine. The tonsils facilitate the production of mucous cells in the nose. Have any other stupid things to say?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Omniskeptical View Post
                      It is interesting how the appendix and tonsils don't have intelligent design. But they do, and I can tell you what they are good for.
                      Tell us about the Intelligent Design of human wisdom teeth. Four extra molars that don't fit into our jaw anymore and can cause serious medical complications and great pain when they erupt later in adult life. Before the advent of modern dentistry impacted wisdom teeth often led to fatal infections.

                      Way to go Intelligent Designer, good stinkin'!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by seer View Post
                        Yes of course, Harris is an atheist. And it is also interesting that he said it doesn't leave much room for conventional religious doctrines. Does it leave room for unconventional religious doctrines?
                        Ah, a gap in conventional religion, where you can insert an unconventional god? The unconventional-god-of-the-gaps.

                        Or we can conclude that we just do not know.
                        My Blog: http://oncreationism.blogspot.co.uk/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Omniskeptical View Post
                          It meters how much clumping bacteria goes into the large intestine.
                          I had my appendix taken out last year. God supposedly have me it endangering my life. Medical took it out, saving my life.

                          I have yet to notice any difference now it is gone, besides a scar. It is in all practical senses redundant.
                          My Blog: http://oncreationism.blogspot.co.uk/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by The Pixie View Post
                            Ah, a gap in conventional religion, where you can insert an unconventional god? The unconventional-god-of-the-gaps.

                            Or we can conclude that we just do not know.
                            And we don't have to accept that "nature did it" either.
                            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by seer View Post
                              And we don't have to accept that "nature did it" either.
                              That is right.

                              If we do not know then all we can say is that we do not know.
                              My Blog: http://oncreationism.blogspot.co.uk/

                              Comment

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