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Bill Nye denies evolution.

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Duragizer View Post
    At least I don't believe my own nonsense.
    I think that you do.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Omniskeptical View Post
      I think that you do.
      Oh snap!
      "When the Western world accepted Christianity, Caesar conquered; and the received text of Western theology was edited by his lawyers…. The brief Galilean vision of humility flickered throughout the ages, uncertainly…. But the deeper idolatry, of the fashioning of God in the image of the Egyptian, Persian, and Roman imperial rulers, was retained. The Church gave unto God the attributes which belonged exclusively to Caesar."

      — Alfred North Whitehead

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Duragizer View Post
        Oh snap!
        Did you think you would get away with that stupid statement?

        Comment


        • #34
          No, I didn't. That's why I'm now serving a life sentence in a maximum security prison without the possibility of parole.
          "When the Western world accepted Christianity, Caesar conquered; and the received text of Western theology was edited by his lawyers…. The brief Galilean vision of humility flickered throughout the ages, uncertainly…. But the deeper idolatry, of the fashioning of God in the image of the Egyptian, Persian, and Roman imperial rulers, was retained. The Church gave unto God the attributes which belonged exclusively to Caesar."

          — Alfred North Whitehead

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
            You are ignoring the slow pace of evolution and the ultimately short times any one human population (on an evolutionary scale) has actually been completely isolated.
            I'm going to go with "if there are significant difference in average melanin content, for example, why can't there be significant differences in average intelligence?"

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Paprika View Post
              I'm going to go with "if there are significant difference in average melanin content, for example, why can't there be significant differences in average intelligence?"
              You are linking two very different traits. The intelligence issue is very complex, and subject to different anecdotal judgments from the perspective of different cultures of how to measure intelligence. At present there is not any evidence that would relate melanin content in the skin with intelligence.

              Racial differences in reality are too superficial and recent to consider these differences significant other then appearance, and some environmental advantage as far as sun exposure.
              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

              go with the flow the river knows . . .

              Frank

              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                You are linking two very different traits.
                I am not. Oximudd objected that the time scales have been too short for any significant difference between races; it is a trivial observation that this is false from the average melanin content, which has a large genetic determinant.

                Racial differences in reality are too superficial and recent to consider these differences significant other then appearance.
                Nonsense. The point is that significant genotypical divergence has occurred (with respect to some genes), resulting in significant phenotypical divergence.

                Therefore, as the timescales are therefore long enough for significant divergence of some genotypes and phenotypes, there is no a priori reason to rule out that significant divergence could not have occurred with those associated with intelligence.

                The intelligence issue is very complex, and subject to different anecdotal judgments from the perspective of different cultures of how to measure intelligence.
                A very fair point; it may well be too complex at the moment.

                But people like Nye claim that there is no essential difference, so implicitly he (and others) are also claiming that enough is known about intelligence and how to measure it, allowing them to make such bold claims that there is no significant difference between races.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                  Nonsense. The point is that significant genotypical divergence has occurred (with respect to some genes), resulting in significant phenotypical divergence.

                  Therefore, as the timescales are therefore long enough for significant divergence of some genotypes and phenotypes, there is no a priori reason to rule out that significant divergence could not have occurred with those associated with intelligence.
                  Disagree, that there is significant divergence. I believe a more suitable example of significant divergence is between Neanderthals and Homo sapiens.

                  It is not a question of whether 'it could not have occurred,' but is there any objective evidence as to whether it occurred or not. There is no objective evidence that it has occurred.

                  But people like Nye claim that there is no essential difference, so implicitly he (and others) are also claiming that enough is known about intelligence and how to measure it, allowing them to make such bold claims that there is no significant difference between races.
                  I sot of agree with Nye, except I would describe it as no significant difference. As far as intelligence as a matter of fact there is not know significant difference that is objectively measurable between the races.
                  Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                  Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                  But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                  go with the flow the river knows . . .

                  Frank

                  I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                    Disagree, that there is significant divergence.

                    You can see with your very own eyes the divergence in phenotype that is caused by divergence in genotype.

                    It is not a question of whether 'it could not have occurred,' but is there any objective evidence as to whether it occurred or not. There is no objective evidence that it has occurred.
                    That's a strong claim. What evidence do you have?

                    I sot of agree with Nye, except I would describe it as no significant difference. As far as intelligence as a matter of fact there is not know significant difference that is objectively measurable between the races.
                    Ditto.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                      That's a strong claim. What evidence do you have?
                      You're asking for evidence that there is no evidence? What do you expect to be provided?

                      Roy
                      Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                      MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                      MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                      seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Paprika View Post

                        You can see with your very own eyes the divergence in phenotype that is caused by divergence in genotype.
                        Differences in superficial appearance does conclude that there is a significant difference in phenotype nor genotype.


                        That's a strong claim. What evidence do you have?
                        Not a strong claim at all. The existence of evidence is a positive attribute. There is no evidence when there is a lack of evidence. Do you have any evidence to offer that there is a racial deference in intelligence?
                        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                        go with the flow the river knows . . .

                        Frank

                        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Roy View Post
                          You're asking for evidence that there is no evidence?
                          What were shuny's claims? a) there is no objective evidence that significant divergence of genotypes related to intelligence has occurred, and b) there is no significant difference in intelligence between races by 'objective measurements'

                          For a) I would expect studies showing no significant difference in the relevant genotypes and critiques of the studies that do. For b) he is requested to share studies that demonstrate his claim that no difference in intelligence between the races exist.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                            Differences in superficial appearance does conclude that there is a significant difference in phenotype nor genotype.
                            I'm glad you agree with me, but I think it more accurate to say 'can' rather than make an absolute statement.

                            Not a strong claim at all. The existence of evidence is a positive attribute. There is no evidence when there is a lack of evidence.
                            On the contrary. A lack of evidence is not necessarily undemonstrable. See too my post to Roy.

                            Do you have any evidence to offer that there is a racial deference in intelligence?
                            My dear shunya, you claimed there was no difference, so I presume you will produce studies that involved IQ tests, for example, and which compared the results between the races to show no significant difference.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                              I'm glad you agree with me, but I think it more accurate to say 'can' rather than make an absolute statement.
                              No so far we are not in agreement.

                              On the contrary. A lack of evidence is not necessarily undemonstrable. See too my post to Roy.
                              The lack of evidence is the lack of evidence.


                              My dear shunya, you claimed there was no difference, so I presume you will produce studies that involved IQ tests, for example, and which compared the results between the races to show no significant difference.
                              I DID NOT claim there is no difference. I said there is no consistent evidence that there is a difference. IQ tests are not a culturally unbiased measurement of intelligence.
                              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                              go with the flow the river knows . . .

                              Frank

                              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                                No so far we are not in agreement.
                                That is rather apparent.

                                The lack of evidence is the lack of evidence.
                                If you're not willing to provide any evidence for your position, well, that's basic shunya for you.

                                I DID NOT claim there is no difference. I said there is no consistent evidence that there is a difference. IQ tests are not a culturally unbiased measurement of intelligence.
                                Dear me. Remember this post?

                                Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                                I sot of agree with Nye, except I would describe it as no significant difference. As far as intelligence as a matter of fact there is not know significant difference that is objectively measurable between the races.

                                Comment

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