Originally posted by Duragizer
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As usual, Tweb rules apply. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.
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Bill Nye denies evolution.
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Originally posted by Omniskeptical View PostI think that you do."When the Western world accepted Christianity, Caesar conquered; and the received text of Western theology was edited by his lawyers…. The brief Galilean vision of humility flickered throughout the ages, uncertainly…. But the deeper idolatry, of the fashioning of God in the image of the Egyptian, Persian, and Roman imperial rulers, was retained. The Church gave unto God the attributes which belonged exclusively to Caesar."
— Alfred North Whitehead
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No, I didn't. That's why I'm now serving a life sentence in a maximum security prison without the possibility of parole."When the Western world accepted Christianity, Caesar conquered; and the received text of Western theology was edited by his lawyers…. The brief Galilean vision of humility flickered throughout the ages, uncertainly…. But the deeper idolatry, of the fashioning of God in the image of the Egyptian, Persian, and Roman imperial rulers, was retained. The Church gave unto God the attributes which belonged exclusively to Caesar."
— Alfred North Whitehead
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostYou are ignoring the slow pace of evolution and the ultimately short times any one human population (on an evolutionary scale) has actually been completely isolated.
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Originally posted by Paprika View PostI'm going to go with "if there are significant difference in average melanin content, for example, why can't there be significant differences in average intelligence?"
Racial differences in reality are too superficial and recent to consider these differences significant other then appearance, and some environmental advantage as far as sun exposure.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostYou are linking two very different traits.
Racial differences in reality are too superficial and recent to consider these differences significant other then appearance.
Therefore, as the timescales are therefore long enough for significant divergence of some genotypes and phenotypes, there is no a priori reason to rule out that significant divergence could not have occurred with those associated with intelligence.
The intelligence issue is very complex, and subject to different anecdotal judgments from the perspective of different cultures of how to measure intelligence.
But people like Nye claim that there is no essential difference, so implicitly he (and others) are also claiming that enough is known about intelligence and how to measure it, allowing them to make such bold claims that there is no significant difference between races.
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Originally posted by Paprika View PostNonsense. The point is that significant genotypical divergence has occurred (with respect to some genes), resulting in significant phenotypical divergence.
Therefore, as the timescales are therefore long enough for significant divergence of some genotypes and phenotypes, there is no a priori reason to rule out that significant divergence could not have occurred with those associated with intelligence.
It is not a question of whether 'it could not have occurred,' but is there any objective evidence as to whether it occurred or not. There is no objective evidence that it has occurred.
But people like Nye claim that there is no essential difference, so implicitly he (and others) are also claiming that enough is known about intelligence and how to measure it, allowing them to make such bold claims that there is no significant difference between races.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostDisagree, that there is significant divergence.
You can see with your very own eyes the divergence in phenotype that is caused by divergence in genotype.
It is not a question of whether 'it could not have occurred,' but is there any objective evidence as to whether it occurred or not. There is no objective evidence that it has occurred.
I sot of agree with Nye, except I would describe it as no significant difference. As far as intelligence as a matter of fact there is not know significant difference that is objectively measurable between the races.
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Originally posted by Paprika View PostThat's a strong claim. What evidence do you have?
RoyJorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by Paprika View Post
You can see with your very own eyes the divergence in phenotype that is caused by divergence in genotype.
That's a strong claim. What evidence do you have?Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by Roy View PostYou're asking for evidence that there is no evidence?
For a) I would expect studies showing no significant difference in the relevant genotypes and critiques of the studies that do. For b) he is requested to share studies that demonstrate his claim that no difference in intelligence between the races exist.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostDifferences in superficial appearance does conclude that there is a significant difference in phenotype nor genotype.
Not a strong claim at all. The existence of evidence is a positive attribute. There is no evidence when there is a lack of evidence.
Do you have any evidence to offer that there is a racial deference in intelligence?
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Originally posted by Paprika View PostI'm glad you agree with me, but I think it more accurate to say 'can' rather than make an absolute statement.
On the contrary. A lack of evidence is not necessarily undemonstrable. See too my post to Roy.
My dear shunya, you claimed there was no difference, so I presume you will produce studies that involved IQ tests, for example, and which compared the results between the races to show no significant difference.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostNo so far we are not in agreement.
The lack of evidence is the lack of evidence.
I DID NOT claim there is no difference. I said there is no consistent evidence that there is a difference. IQ tests are not a culturally unbiased measurement of intelligence.
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostI sot of agree with Nye, except I would describe it as no significant difference. As far as intelligence as a matter of fact there is not know significant difference that is objectively measurable between the races.
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