NASA's EmDrive actually works

[Truthseeker]

First of all, here a link to an english translation of Eintein's 1905 paper "On The Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies" As anyone can read for themselves, Einstein never proposes that the third law is invalid in Electrodynamics.

All I will say in response is a plea for you to cast thine eyes unto whatever clicking on this link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton'...ge_of_validity
may reveal, in particular the second paragraph.

Thirdly, momentum is conserved locally (and globally) in the special theory of relativity.

In General Relativity, momentum has to be folded in with energy (the latter measured in three unique directions, e.g., X, Y, Z): Viola! The energy-momentum 4-vector.

[Leonhard]

All I will say in response is a plea for you to cast thine eyes unto whatever clicking on this link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton'...ge_of_validity
may reveal, in particular the second paragraph.

I did not dismiss that Newton's laws don't apply to high momentum, high gravitational curvature circumstances. I dismissed that there was a violation of Newton's Third Law, discussed by Einstein's original paper, which you linked to in German.

In General Relativity, momentum has to be folded in with energy (the latter measured in three unique directions, e.g., X, Y, Z): Viola! The energy-momentum 4-vector.

And this quantity is locally conserved in all low-gravity circumstances such as Earth. Hence whatever way this device works, if does at all and its not just a measurement fluke (which it'll likely be soon announced to be), it doesn't do so by somehow escaping the fact that momentum is conserved.

[Truthseeker]

I did not dismiss that Newton's laws don't apply to high momentum, high gravitational curvature circumstances. I dismissed that there was a violation of Newton's Third Law, discussed by Einstein's original paper, which you linked to in German.

Einstein may not have explicitly mentioned the third law, but I think the first paragraph of his paper is at least suggestive.

And this quantity is locally conserved in all low-gravity circumstances such as Earth. Hence whatever way this device works, if does at all and its not just a measurement fluke (which it'll likely be soon announced to be), it doesn't do so by somehow escaping the fact that momentum is conserved.

Well, when doing electrodynamics stuff, one usually needs Special Relativity (if gravitational "distortions" can be ignored . . . hmmm can it really be so in the vicinity of Earth? The GPS system does require GR, does it not?).

I have an hunch now that we need to understand the Lorentz force http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorentz_force
It could be a principal in the propulsion equation.

[Sparko]

Einstein may not have explicitly mentioned the third law, but I think the first paragraph of his paper is at least suggestive.




Well, when doing electrodynamics stuff, one usually needs Special Relativity (if gravitational "distortions" can be ignored . . . hmmm can it really be so in the vicinity of Earth? The GPS system does require GR, does it not?).

I have an hunch now that we need to understand the Lorentz force http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorentz_force
It could be a principal in the propulsion equation.

You are just stringing random sentences together and expecting it to mean something.

[Kbertsche]

Nasa scientists have started to tone the news on this down a bit.

Source: space.com

Siegel said he is seeing claims of thrust happening just a few times over many tests, with a frequency that is "not inconsistent with random chance." Further, the thrust that was produced in these rare instances was apparently just above the margin of error for measurement, he added.

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(src: http://www.space.com/29363-impossibl...gine-nasa.html)

This is starting to display the symptoms of "Pathological Science" described by Langmuir in 1953:

Source: Langmuir

*The maximum effect that is observed is produced by a causative agent of barely detectable intensity, and the magnitude of the effect is substantially independent of the intensity of the cause.
*The effect is of a magnitude that remains close to the limit of detectability; or, many measurements are necessary because of the very low statistical significance of the results.
*Claims of great accuracy.
*Fantastic theories contrary to experience.
*Criticisms are met by ad hoc excuses thought up on the spur of the moment.
*Ratio of supporters to critics rises up to somewhere near 50% and then falls gradually to oblivion.

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