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Progress in origin of life research - RNA world

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  • #16
    Why don't you write it up and submit it to Nature Chemistry?
    Austrian economists didn't write for Pravda.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Paprika View Post
      Another terribly unlikely possibility.

      Let us know when there's anything more.
      Why do you think being able to form these chemicals (at least) in space, is "terribly unlikely"?

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Epoetker View Post
        Austrian economists didn't write for Pravda.
        So who wrote the words you quoted?

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        • #19
          Originally posted by rwatts View Post
          Why do you think being able to form these chemicals (at least) in space, is "terribly unlikely"?

          Don't put words in my mouth.

          These papers suggest terribly unlikely scenarios for the supposed abiogenesis event; the one involving meteorite catalysis is very unlikely because (as is clear from the quote) the amount of organic matter from asteroid bombardment would be miniscule.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Paprika View Post
            Another terribly unlikely possibility.

            Let us know when there's anything more.
            Did anyone say life was 'likely' as a result of what is being discovered? The ideas being lofted here counter the oft quoted mantra that there is no practical way for life to form via natural pathways AT ALL (or the rough equivalent). These discoveries/papers show there are some natural pathways to some of the elements required to form DNA. It doesn't mean these are THE pathways, just that there are SOME. We may well discover there are many. Who knows. But if they are rare, then we may well be rare. That is a far cry from 'It is impossible(or some probability so low as to be the equivalent) for life to form via natural processes".

            OTOH, IF your theology crumbles if God designed the universe so that life could form of its own God given capacity (one logical interpretation of "Earth - bring forth life" in Genesis), then I can understand why such findings would not excite you and/or would be something you would wish to play down.


            Jim
            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

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            • #21
              Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
              Did anyone say life was 'likely' as a result of what is being discovered?
              Not really; the popular articles can be excused because sensationalism is what they do.

              These studies suggest new possibilities, yes, but they're still on the same scale of unlikelihood as the old ones. That another group of scientists have found yet another very unlikely scenario is hardly groundbreaking news: hence my posting to let us know when there's actually anything significant.

              Who knows. But if they are rare, then we may well be rare. That is a far cry from 'It is impossible(or some probability so low as to be the equivalent) for life to form via natural processes".
              So far the probability is still low as to be the equivalent, since the papers cited required highly favourable and unlikely conditions (haven't been able to get access to the latest one but it's likely the same ol' same ol').

              OTOH, IF your theology crumbles if God designed the universe so that life could form of its own God given capacity (one logical interpretation of "Earth - bring forth life" in Genesis), then I can understand why such findings would not excite you and/or would be something you would wish to play down.
              Quite, but I'm not the usual fundy so spare me the patronising, please.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Paprika View Post

                Don't put words in my mouth.

                These papers suggest terribly unlikely scenarios for the supposed abiogenesis event; the one involving meteorite catalysis is very unlikely because (as is clear from the quote) the amount of organic matter from asteroid bombardment would be miniscule.
                Based on your reply, it appears I did not put words into your mouth. My question was directed at exactly what you were getting at.

                And I did offer more than one scenario.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by rwatts View Post
                  Based on your reply, it appears I did not put words into your mouth.
                  My reply didn't address plausibility of formation in space but declares it doesn't matter because organic material from meteorites would be miniscule, hence whether organics are catalysed by meteorites is terribly unlikely to be the reason for abiogenesis for earth.

                  And I did offer more than one scenario.
                  The rest are also terribly unlikely possibilities, as Epo pointed out.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                    My reply didn't address plausibility of formation in space but declares it doesn't matter because organic material from meteorites would be miniscule, hence whether organics are catalysed by meteorites is terribly unlikely to be the reason for abiogenesis for earth.


                    The rest are also terribly unlikely possibilities, as Epo pointed out.
                    Probable or not is a bad argument.

                    Probability is not a problem when you have billions of years for it to happen, and whole globe to work on it.
                    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                    go with the flow the river knows . . .

                    Frank

                    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                      Probable or not is a bad argument.
                      I haven't argued that abiogenesis hasn't happened.
                      Probability is not a problem when you have billions of years for it to happen, and whole globe to work on it.
                      Ah yes, the Time of the Gaps argument.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                        I haven't argued that abiogenesis hasn't happened.
                        Your argument is not clear, maybe not likely by natural methods considering what you call odds?, but riddled with religious bias without a constructive view of the science. Something like the lack of specific knowledge of natural origins of life demonstrates the unlikelyhood of natural origins?

                        Ah yes, the Time of the Gaps argument.
                        No
                        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                        go with the flow the river knows . . .

                        Frank

                        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                          Your argument is not clear, maybe not likely by natural methods considering what you call odds?, but riddled with religious bias without a constructive view of the science. Something like the lack of specific knowledge of natural origins of life demonstrates the unlikelyhood of natural origins?
                          I have made no argument about whether abiogenesis happened or not. My point was that the studies are hardly significant.

                          No
                          But yes.

                          "Probability is not a problem when you have billions of years for it to happen, and whole globe to work on it."
                          We don't know what happened, but there was a lot of time, which solves matters.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                            My reply didn't address plausibility of formation in space but declares it doesn't matter because organic material from meteorites would be miniscule, hence whether organics are catalysed by meteorites is terribly unlikely to be the reason for abiogenesis for earth.
                            So what words did I put in your mouth?


                            Originally posted by Paprika
                            The rest are also terribly unlikely possibilities, as Epo pointed out.
                            What did he point out? It came across to me as little more than a rant.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by rwatts View Post
                              so what words did i put in your mouth?
                              Originally posted by rwatts View Post
                              why do you think being able to form these chemicals (at least) in space, is "terribly unlikely"?


                              what did he point out?
                              Originally posted by Paprika View Post

                              the rest are also terribly unlikely possibilities

                              Try reading carefully.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Paprika View Post






                                Try reading carefully.
                                Ah, having reread what you wrote and what Epo, wrote, then I see what you mean. I did not read you carefully enough.

                                Nevertheless, they do continue to make progress. If this bothers you both, then you will have to keep on hoping that they will never solve all the issues Epo pointed out, and I will have to keep on hoping that they do, as time goes by.

                                But I do think they continue to make progress towards a possible understanding, don't you?

                                Comment

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