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"Bad design" eye ...

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Duragizer View Post
    Any eye that can't shoot lasers and doesn't have x-ray vision can't be all that perfect, can it?
    fify

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    • #17
      Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
      This press release (and that's what it is, just PR from the group hosting this guy's talk) is short on details. The background is that certain neural support cells within the layer of nerves can act as lenses for the photoreceptors below them. This can help make up for the fact that there are nerves in between the photoreceptors and any light source.

      Is this more efficient than simply putting the photoreceptors directly in the path of the light source? Or is it simply a partial compensation for the fact that the vertebrate eye is developmentally constrained in a way that forces the nerves to be in front? The PR doesn't say which is the case. Until that's looked into (assuming it hasn't been), then this doesn't really provide any information, regardless of whether you have an evolutionary or design perspective on the eye.
      That's the first thing I thought when reading the story. The poor design with the backwards wiring was locked in early in the vertebrate eye's evolutionary history. These focusing cells evolved much later as an adaption to try and make the best out of the poor starting layout. I was reminded of the fix done to the Hubble Space Telescope where the corrective lens was added well after the original flaw in the optical design was made.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View Post
        That's the first thing I thought when reading the story. The poor design with the backwards wiring was locked in early in the vertebrate eye's evolutionary history. These focusing cells evolved much later as an adaption to try and make the best out of the poor starting layout. I was reminded of the fix done to the Hubble Space Telescope where the corrective lens was added well after the original flaw in the optical design was made.
        Since when does the evolutionary process try and make the best out of anything?
        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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        • #19
          Originally posted by seer View Post
          Since when does the evolutionary process try and make the best out of anything?
          "Make the best of" != "perfection". The configuration that's best adapted for survival usually dominates.

          This has nothing to do with what you're hinting at.

          BTW, 1) how would a designer make the eye more "perfect"? and 2) didn't "perfection" get broken at the Fall?

          C'mon, a good YEC defender like you should be able to answer these.

          K54
          Last edited by klaus54; 03-02-2015, 09:43 AM.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Jorge View Post
            They'd rather disembowel themselves with a rusty machete that "admit" such a thing.

            Never forget, "science" is just a ruse, it's actually about promoting their religious position.


            Jorge
            Guffaw!!!

            You're the bestest comedian, EVER!

            K54
            Last edited by klaus54; 03-02-2015, 09:41 AM. Reason: highlighting

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            • #21
              Originally posted by seer View Post
              Since when does the evolutionary process try and make the best out of anything?
              ??? Since the process of evolution first began over 3.5 billion years ago. The feedback part of the genetic variations + selection process works to drive a population towards local fitness maxima. To that end it will ensure whatever configuration it started with gets optimized for reproductive success which usually means better performance in the local environment. That's what evolution does.
              Last edited by HMS_Beagle; 03-02-2015, 09:43 AM.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View Post
                ??? Since the process of evolution first began over 3.5 billion years ago. The feedback part of the genetic variations + selection process works to drive a population towards local fitness maxima. To that end it will ensure whatever configuration it started with gets optimized for reproductive success which usually means better performance in the local environment. That's what evolution does.
                Of the process makes a population less fit and it goes extinct. It doesn't care or try to make the best of anything. We just get lucky or not.
                Last edited by seer; 03-02-2015, 10:01 AM.
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by seer View Post
                  Of the process makes a population less fit and it goes extinct. It doesn't care or try to make the best of anything. We just get lucky or not.
                  Why are you niggling with words? HMS B. explained the process very well.

                  1) Was the "perfection" of the human eye "broken" at the Fall? Yes or no?

                  2) If so, how would YOU improve the eye were you the Designer?

                  I know you'd rather argue nuances of vocabulary, but try to make an honest effort to address these questions.

                  Your buddy Jorge can have a go at 'em as well.

                  K54

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by seer View Post
                    Of the process makes a population less fit and it goes extinct. It doesn't care or try to make the best of anything. We just get lucky or not.
                    No, the process never makes the population less fit. What often happens though is the optimization process makes the population highly specialized for one particular niche. Then if that niche changes or goes away entirely the population can't adapt quickly enough and goes extinct.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View Post
                      No, the process never makes the population less fit. What often happens though is the optimization process makes the population highly specialized for one particular niche. Then if that niche changes or goes away entirely the population can't adapt quickly enough and goes extinct.
                      And yes, that is part of the process. The process does not "try to make the best" - it doesn't try to do anything. Just blind luck.
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by seer View Post
                        And yes, that is part of the process. The process does not "try to make the best" - it doesn't try to do anything. Just blind luck.
                        Just like gravity doesn't try to make dropped objects fall towards the ground. It's just blind luck.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View Post
                          Just like gravity doesn't try to make dropped objects fall towards the ground. It's just blind luck.
                          Are you simple? Tell me Beagle, why has our species survived while most of the species through out history gone extinct? Apart from blind luck?
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by seer View Post
                            And yes, that is part of the process. The process does not "try to make the best" - it doesn't try to do anything. Just blind luck.
                            When are you, once and for all, going to knock off this crapola?

                            You don't understand how biological evolution works, and keep harping on this "random is random, chance is chance" garbage.

                            Oh, I see you don't care for my two questions (you probably have me on ignore):

                            1) How would YOU design an eye to be more "perfect"?

                            2) Didn't the "perfection" of the eye get "broken" at the Fall? In which case Jor's OP is a load of irrelevant hooey.

                            K54

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by seer View Post
                              Are you simple? Tell me Beagle, why has our species survived while most of the species through out history gone extinct? Apart from blind luck?
                              Knock it off, Nitwit!

                              There are numerous adaptations the led to "our" species surviving. A larger brain, nimble hands that gave the ability to make tools and clothing and fire so as to allow migration in colder climates, more...?

                              Learn how evolution works or shut your piehole!

                              K54

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by seer View Post
                                Are you simple? Tell me Beagle, why has our species survived while most of the species through out history gone extinct? Apart from blind luck?
                                I already explained how extinctions happen. Seems to me you've had both evolution and extinction explained quite a number of times now. It's hard to dumb down the concepts much further yet you still refuse to understand.

                                Is it just blind luck that dropped objects fall to the ground?

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