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Is defending a 'young' earth necessary?

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  • Is defending a 'young' earth necessary?

    I just came across this posting at Creation Ministries International (CMI) that was so to the point that I had to post it here. It was written by Carl Wieland in response to a letter from an evangelist. This evangelist is doing what many Evolutionist TWebbers do (most notably O-Mudd (Jim) and Rogue06) with their "the age issue is not salvational" schtick.

    One thing that I'd like to point out is that the essence of Wieland's response, including the four related articles linked at the end, is exactly what I have tried to communicate to the "unbelievers and compromisers" here at TWeb. I sincerely hope that this inspires you to do better.


    Here are the letter and response ...

    A New Zealand correspondent who supports our [CMI] ministry has expressed doubts about whether the Bible teaches a young earth and Dr Carl Wieland responds.

    http://creation.com/defending-young-earth-not-biblical

    I am an evangelist … and really endorse your ministry. You give me the tools I need to counter the evolutionary arguments I face.

    I just wanted to say that I don’t believe the Bible says the earth is young. It may be young, and I have read your many articles on scientific evidences supporting this argument as well as your articles on interpreting scripture as saying it is young.

    However, I do not believe scripture says this and am concerned that you are trying to defend a position which is not necessary to defend. All your other work is so wonderful that I would not want you to try to defend a position which is not biblical and then maybe lose that argument or have the whole ministry discredited.

    You don’t need to reply to this—it is just a concern of mine that we don’t get tied up trying to defend what the bible doesn’t explicitly say.



    Dear Mr ******,

    I have carefully read your email, and note that you are an evangelist, a very significant calling and task at any time.

    You may wonder why I am responding, considering you have said it is unnecessary. Perhaps it will help you to understand if you put yourself in the position of just having received an email from someone who says, e.g.: “The Bible doesn’t teach that God is a Trinity. I’ve looked and looked but the word ‘trinity’ doesn’t even appear in the Bible.”

    I’m sure you would find it difficult to resist pointing out to that person at least some of the many ways in which the teaching (as a deduction from combining various threads of separate teaching) is not only a very, very important one, but a blindingly obvious one. I’m sure you would also want that person to have the opportunity to at least consider things they likely have not done to date. Including not just Bible passages, but also [theological] implications from the evidence of the real world. [my emphasis]

    Do you really want to be on the side of the scoffers in 2 Peter 3:3–5, even if only partly?

    For example, the implications of having bloodshed, disease and suffering before the Fall, which is what long-agism must imply (since fossils show these things, then if they are millions of years old, it means they predated Adam and hence the Fall/Curse).

    And it then also means rejecting the clear teaching of the global nature of the Flood. [There are long-age creation ‘ministries’ that push the idea that the earth is old. Consistently, they all deny the global nature of the Flood—but one only needs to read Genesis to see if that is even remotely possible from the language.]

    Do you really want to be on the side of the scoffers in 2 Peter 3:3–5, even if only partly?

    Do you really want to say with your stance that the overwhelming majority of great Christian scholars and thinkers were wrong in deducing from the Bible that the Bible teaches a perfect world before sin, ruined by sin, to be restored in the future to a sinless deathlessness? Do you really want to say that Jesus got it wrong about man’s relative position in the history of creation, as in the article below on Jesus and the age of the earth?

    I submit for your careful and prayerful consideration just three articles, below, and invite your followup comments. May I suggest first the one featuring Jesus’ teaching. I know you are not advocating theistic evolution, but the implications of a long-age position are exactly the same when it comes to the particular statement by Jesus.

    http://creation.com/6000-years
    http://creation.com/jesus-age-earth
    http://creation.com/the-fall-a-cosmic-catastrophe

    Also see here: http://creation.com/old-earth-or-young-earth-belief

    Kind regards in Christ,

    Dr Carl Wieland



    Again, I sincerely hope that this inspires you to try harder. If not, oh well, I can only try.

    Jorge

  • #2
    Necessary for what?
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      Necessary for what?
      To be saved. Note the last sentence in the first paragraph.
      This evangelist is doing what many Evolutionist TWebbers do (most notably O-Mudd (Jim) and Rogue06) with their "the age issue is not salvational" schtick.

      And then there was Jorge's infamous thread on the pre-crash Tweb called "TAKE TWO: Can you be an evolutionist and a Christian?" where he concluded "no" and later in the OP included OECs, PEs, Day-Agers... essentially everyone who wasn't a YEC. To be fair, in a different thread Jorge magnanimously proclaimed that it was possible for a Theistic Evolutionist to be saved but only if they were ignorant (didn't understand their beliefs) or mentally impaired (not capable of understanding their beliefs).

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
        To be saved. Note the last sentence in the first paragraph.
        This evangelist is doing what many Evolutionist TWebbers do (most notably O-Mudd (Jim) and Rogue06) with their "the age issue is not salvational" schtick.
        Ah! Then NO.

        And then there was Jorge's infamous thread on the pre-crash Tweb called "TAKE TWO: Can you be an evolutionist and a Christian?" where he concluded "no" and later in the OP included OECs, PEs, Day-Agers... essentially everyone who wasn't a YEC. To be fair, in a different thread Jorge magnanimously proclaimed that it was possible for a Theistic Evolutionist to be saved but only if they were ignorant (didn't understand their beliefs) or mentally impaired (not capable of understanding their beliefs).
        I'm not a YEC, and I don't think the Bible forces that position.
        "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          Necessary for what?
          Fair question.

          Necessary for teaching a proper Christianity as opposed to teaching a distorted,
          compromised version of Christianity. "Proper" also in the sense of being and remaining
          faithful to Scripture as opposed to serving anti-biblical, anti-Christian agendas by way
          of man-made perverted misrepresentations of God's Holy Word.

          Necessary for that.

          Jorge

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Jorge View Post
            Fair question.

            Necessary for teaching a proper Christianity as opposed to teaching a distorted,
            compromised version of Christianity. "Proper" also in the sense of being and remaining
            faithful to Scripture as opposed to serving anti-biblical, anti-Christian agendas by way
            of man-made perverted misrepresentations of God's Holy Word.

            Necessary for that.

            Jorge
            no
            "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Jorge View Post
              Fair question.

              Necessary for teaching a proper Christianity as opposed to teaching a distorted,
              compromised version of Christianity. "Proper" also in the sense of being and remaining
              faithful to Scripture as opposed to serving anti-biblical, anti-Christian agendas by way
              of man-made perverted misrepresentations of God's Holy Word.

              Necessary for that.

              Jorge
              Notice how Jorge implies that YEC is a critical belief of Christianity and is a requirement for being a Christian. Nice, do you always try to pull the wool over people's eyes and hope they are too dumb to spot you trying to do this? Perhaps you should answer this question first:

              Is YEC a requirement for being a Christian?

              You say it isn't, but than you make post like the above one that say otherwise, so what is your answer?
              "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
              GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                Notice how Jorge implies that YEC is a critical belief of Christianity and is a requirement for being a Christian. Nice, do you always try to pull the wool over people's eyes and hope they are too dumb to spot you trying to do this? Perhaps you should answer this question first:

                Is YEC a requirement for being a Christian?

                You say it isn't, but than you make post like the above one that say otherwise, so what is your answer?
                Yeah!
                "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                  Notice how Jorge implies that YEC is a critical belief of Christianity and is a requirement for being a Christian. Nice, do you always try to pull the wool over people's eyes and hope they are too dumb to spot you trying to do this? Perhaps you should answer this question first:

                  Is YEC a requirement for being a Christian?

                  You say it isn't, but than you make post like the above one that say otherwise, so what is your answer?
                  Yeah, and you would never say similar things like say, KJV Onlyism?

                  This is a total misrepresentation of what Jorge has said.Having a distorted view of the Bible is not anywhere near the same as saying someone is not a Christian.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    Yeah!

                    Seriously? You too?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      no
                      "no" ???

                      Could you elaborate? ... two-character responses aren't my forte.

                      Jorge

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post

                        Seriously? You too?
                        OK, what did I miss?
                        "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                          Yeah, and you would never say similar things like say, KJV Onlyism?

                          This is a total misrepresentation of what Jorge has said.Having a distorted view of the Bible is not anywhere near the same as saying someone is not a Christian.
                          Thanks, C123.

                          Only to 'these people' does one have to go out of the way to point out the obvious.

                          Jorge

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Jorge View Post
                            Thanks, C123.

                            Only to 'these people' does one have to go out of the way to point out the obvious.

                            Jorge


                            "these people"?
                            "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                              Yeah, and you would never say similar things like say, KJV Onlyism?

                              This is a total misrepresentation of what Jorge has said.Having a distorted view of the Bible is not anywhere near the same as saying someone is not a Christian.
                              What is the topic of the thread?

                              "Is Defending a 'young earth' necessary?"

                              So his question has to be taken in mind with the topic of the thread. His implication is pretty obvious... any view that isn't YEC is a 'distortion' of the faith. Besides, Jorge seems to hop back and forth between if non YEC's are Christian or not and never seems to give a straight answer. Hummm... I wonder why...
                              "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                              GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                              Comment

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