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Intelligent Design?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Duragizer View Post
    So I assume you've studied every major non-Christian religious text to ascertain that this is so?
    what for?

    they don't even believe in the God who created them
    To say that crony capitalism is not true/free market capitalism, is like saying a grand slam is not true baseball, or like saying scoring a touchdown is not true American football ...Stefan Mykhaylo D

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
      I certainly don't need to understand Norse mythology to embrace those attributes; however, I desire to understand Norse mythology while embracing those attributes because I have found them to contain a great deal of wisdom, in addition to being extremely interesting and entertaining.
      Or perhaps you are actually seeking something otherworldly, more permanent, through myth...


      Mythology, then, sought God through the imagination; or sought truth by means of beauty. Chesterton...
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by seer View Post
        Or perhaps you are actually seeking something otherworldly, more permanent, through myth...
        Nope. Nothing otherworldly about it. These myths are rather distinctly from Earth.
        "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
        --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by jordanriver View Post
          what for?

          they don't even believe in the God who created them
          All 3 (or 4) Abrahamic religions believe in a personal God who created the Cosmos, which of course includes humanity.

          K54

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
            Nope. Nothing otherworldly about it. These myths are rather distinctly from Earth.
            Of course.

            Now the story of Christ is simply a true myth: a myth working on us the same way as the others, but with this tremendous difference that it really happened: and one must be content to accept it in the same way, remembering that it is God’s myth where the others are men’s myths: i.e., the Pagan stories are God expressing Himself through the minds of poets, using such images as He found there, while Christianity is God expressing Himself through what we call 'real things'.” CS Lewis
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by jordanriver View Post
              what for?

              they don't even believe in the God who created them
              Missing the forest for the trees again, I see ...
              "When the Western world accepted Christianity, Caesar conquered; and the received text of Western theology was edited by his lawyers…. The brief Galilean vision of humility flickered throughout the ages, uncertainly…. But the deeper idolatry, of the fashioning of God in the image of the Egyptian, Persian, and Roman imperial rulers, was retained. The Church gave unto God the attributes which belonged exclusively to Caesar."

              — Alfred North Whitehead

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Duragizer View Post
                Missing the forest for the trees again, I see ...
                Are you projecting.
                To say that crony capitalism is not true/free market capitalism, is like saying a grand slam is not true baseball, or like saying scoring a touchdown is not true American football ...Stefan Mykhaylo D

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by seer View Post
                  Of course.
                  “Now the story of Christ is simply a true myth: a myth working on us the same way as the others, but with this tremendous difference that it really happened: and one must be content to accept it in the same way, remembering that it is God’s myth where the others are men’s myths: i.e., the Pagan stories are God expressing Himself through the minds of poets, using such images as He found there, while Christianity is God expressing Himself through what we call 'real things'.” CS Lewis
                  In disagreement with Mr. Lewis, I'll note that I do not see anything otherworldly about the Christian myths, either. They, too, are distinctly from Earth.
                  "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
                  --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
                    In disagreement with Mr. Lewis, I'll note that I do not see anything otherworldly about the Christian myths, either. They, too, are distinctly from Earth.
                    OK, ignore the Eternal as it tugs at your heart through myth...
                    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
                      In disagreement with Mr. Lewis, I'll note that I do not see anything otherworldly about the Christian myths, either. They, too, are distinctly from Earth.
                      The actual distinction Lewis is drawing is between myths he believes are based on fiction, and myths he believes are based on historical fact. The pagans, ironically, believed exactly as Lewis, they simply thought THEIR pet myths were historical.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by phank View Post
                        The actual distinction Lewis is drawing is between myths he believes are based on fiction, and myths he believes are based on historical fact. The pagans, ironically, believed exactly as Lewis, they simply thought THEIR pet myths were historical.
                        This is a bit of an overgeneralization, but I do get what you're saying.
                        "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
                        --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
                          This is a bit of an overgeneralization, but I do get what you're saying.
                          Just curious, but how do you mean that its an overgeneralization? Are you suggesting that the Norse believed that their gods, or the narratives about their gods, were fictional? And if so, do we have historical pagan evidence of the sort? (I specify pagan, because I imagine their Christian descendants may have wanted to downplay that point).

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Jorge View Post
                            I have long been at odds with core IDers on this point. I had exchanges with Bill Dembski on this dating back 13-14 years or so. Bluntly, as smart as many of the top IDers are (and they are smart!), I'm quite certain that on this issue they missed the proverbial boat.

                            My reasoning is simple:

                            Suppose ANY "designer" other than God.
                            Okay, then what was the origin of that "designer"?
                            By logic and empiricism, infinite regression is not allowed.
                            Thus, two and only two options are possible: purely natural or supernatural.

                            If purely natural then ID fails.

                            If supernatural, then God necessarily enters the picture.

                            Yet, IDers wish to avoid that inevitable option (God = Designer) at all cost.

                            In Without Excuse I go into more detail but above is the essence.

                            More than anything else, chirping sounds has been the response ...

                            Jorge
                            If God established what we calls the natural laws when He created everything then He could have used them to first create life without having to step in and violate them.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                              Just curious, but how do you mean that its an overgeneralization? Are you suggesting that the Norse believed that their gods, or the narratives about their gods, were fictional? And if so, do we have historical pagan evidence of the sort? (I specify pagan, because I imagine their Christian descendants may have wanted to downplay that point).
                              The Norse view of myth was certainly more nuanced than the characterization Phank suggested, but it would not be inaccurate to claim that these people saw historical truths within their mythology.

                              I was referring more to the Greek pagan schools of philosophy, many of which viewed the mythology associated with the gods as being ahistorical.
                              "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
                              --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by seer View Post
                                Is stoning still illegal?
                                Not in Iran. In fact they have laws specifying the size of rocks to be used. Not too small so as not to cause any real damage. Not too large as to kill the victim too quickly.

                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                                Comment

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