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Intelligent Design?

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  • Intelligent Design?

    Really?


    Scientists in the U.K. have examined a tiny metal circular object, and are suggesting it might be a micro-organism deliberately sent by extraterrestrials to create life on Earth.

    Don't be fooled by the size of the object in the microscopic image above. It may appear to look like a planet-sized globe, but in fact, it's no bigger than the width of a human hair.

    The University of Buckingham reports that the minuscule metal globe was discovered by astrobiologist Milton Wainwright and a team of researchers who examined dust and minute matter gathered by a high-flying balloon in Earth's stratosphere.

    "It is a ball about the width of a human hair, which has filamentous life on the outside and a gooey biological material oozing from its centre," Wainwright said, according to Express.co.uk.

    "One theory is it was sent to Earth by some unknown civilization in order to continue seeding the planet with life," Wainwright hypothesizes.

    That theory comes from a Nobel Prize winner.

    "This seeming piece of science fiction -- called 'directed panspermia' -- would probably not be taken seriously by any scientist were it not for the fact that it was very seriously suggested by the Nobel Prize winner of DNA fame, Francis Crick," said Wainwright.

    Panspermia is a theory that suggests life spreads across the known physical universe, hitchhiking on comets or meteorites.

    The idea of directed panspermia was suggested by Crick, a molecular biologist, who was the co-discoverer of the structure of DNA in 1953. Twenty years later, Crick co-wrote -- with biochemist Leslie Orgel -- a scientific paper about directed panspermia.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/0...usaolp00000592
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

  • #2
    Intelligent Design?

    Just can't get away from ID.

    Scientists in the U.K. have examined a tiny metal circular object, and are suggesting it might be a micro-organism deliberately sent by extraterrestrials to create life on Earth.

    Don't be fooled by the size of the object in the microscopic image above. It may appear to look like a planet-sized globe, but in fact, it's no bigger than the width of a human hair.

    The University of Buckingham reports that the minuscule metal globe was discovered by astrobiologist Milton Wainwright and a team of researchers who examined dust and minute matter gathered by a high-flying balloon in Earth's stratosphere.

    "It is a ball about the width of a human hair, which has filamentous life on the outside and a gooey biological material oozing from its centre," Wainwright said, according to Express.co.uk.

    "One theory is it was sent to Earth by some unknown civilization in order to continue seeding the planet with life," Wainwright hypothesizes.

    That theory comes from a Nobel Prize winner.

    "This seeming piece of science fiction -- called 'directed panspermia' -- would probably not be taken seriously by any scientist were it not for the fact that it was very seriously suggested by the Nobel Prize winner of DNA fame, Francis Crick," said Wainwright.

    Panspermia is a theory that suggests life spreads across the known physical universe, hitchhiking on comets or meteorites.

    The idea of directed panspermia was suggested by Crick, a molecular biologist, who was the co-discoverer of the structure of DNA in 1953. Twenty years later, Crick co-wrote -- with biochemist Leslie Orgel -- a scientific paper about directed panspermia.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/0...usaolp00000592
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • #3
      Yeah, it's true. I saw that 'news' this morning and had my laugh for the day.

      These PhD "scientists" can propose anything ... a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g ... as long as
      they remain within the realm of mass-energy and physical laws. Then, by
      definition (which they constructed), they get to call it "science".

      Here they are jumping on the fantasies of Nobel-laureate Crick - the original publisher of Directed Panspermia. Crick did this when, after decades of searching, he could not avoid the conclusion that ONLY directed intelligence could explain the DNA in life. That left him with two and only two options: God or ET. Atheist as he was, God was immediately excluded. That left only ET and so Crick unashamedly published his DP Theory. Yup, "science" at its worst.

      EDITED TO ADD: As I wrote in our book (Without Excuse, 2011 - I wrote that section), Crick proved God's verse that, "believing themselves wise, they become fools". I mean, hellooooo Mr. Crick, where did ET come from?

      Jorge
      Last edited by Jorge; 02-13-2015, 01:21 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Jorge View Post
        Yeah, it's true. I saw that 'news' this morning and had my laugh for the day.

        These PhD "scientists" can propose anything ... a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g ... as long as
        they remain within the realm of mass-energy and physical laws. Then, by
        definition (which they constructed), they get to call it "science".

        Nobel-laureate Crick, as you may recall, published his Directed Panspermia
        concoction when, after decades of searching, he could not avoid the
        conclusion that ONLY directed intelligence could explain the DNA in life.
        That left him with two and only to options: God or ET. Atheist as he was,
        God was immediately excluded
        . That left only ET and so Crick unashamedly
        published his DP Theory. Yup, "science" at its worst.

        Jorge

        Of course...
        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

        Comment


        • #5
          This isn't the same as the intelligent design arguments of certain Christian groups though. And its more of a model of how life originated and a solution to Fermi's paradox, than a scientific hypothesis.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
            This isn't the same as the intelligent design arguments of certain Christian groups though. And its more of a model of how life originated and a solution to Fermi's paradox, than a scientific hypothesis.
            It's not really a model for how life originated, so much as a model for how some life may have originated on Earth.

            Either way, you're right that it has nothing to do with ID as discussed by the Discovery Institute or other such groups.
            "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
            --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
              This isn't the same as the intelligent design arguments of certain Christian groups though. And its more of a model of how life originated and a solution to Fermi's paradox, than a scientific hypothesis.
              Intelligent design does not necessarily tells us who or what the designer is. And it is a play on the concept. An extraterrestrial would be intelligent, and directed panspermia would be design.
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by seer View Post
                Intelligent design does not necessarily tells us who or what the designer is. And it is a play on the concept. An extraterrestrial would be intelligent, and directed panspermia would be design.
                I have long been at odds with core IDers on this point. I had exchanges with Bill Dembski on this dating back 13-14 years or so. Bluntly, as smart as many of the top IDers are (and they are smart!), I'm quite certain that on this issue they missed the proverbial boat.

                My reasoning is simple:

                Suppose ANY "designer" other than God.
                Okay, then what was the origin of that "designer"?
                By logic and empiricism, infinite regression is not allowed.
                Thus, two and only two options are possible: purely natural or supernatural.

                If purely natural then ID fails.

                If supernatural, then God necessarily enters the picture.

                Yet, IDers wish to avoid that inevitable option (God = Designer) at all cost.

                In Without Excuse I go into more detail but above is the essence.

                More than anything else, chirping sounds has been the response ...

                Jorge

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jorge View Post
                  I have long been at odds with core IDers on this point. I had exchanges with Bill Dembski on this dating back 13-14 years or so. Bluntly, as smart as many of the top IDers are (and they are smart!), I'm quite certain that on this issue they missed the proverbial boat.

                  My reasoning is simple:

                  Suppose ANY "designer" other than God.
                  Okay, then what was the origin of that "designer"?
                  By logic and empiricism, infinite regression is not allowed.
                  Thus, two and only two options are possible: purely natural or supernatural.

                  If purely natural then ID fails.

                  If supernatural, then God necessarily enters the picture.

                  Yet, IDers wish to avoid that inevitable option (God = Designer) at all cost.

                  In Without Excuse I go into more detail but above is the essence.

                  More than anything else, chirping sounds has been the response ...
                  By Odin's right eye, I think this is a milestone: Jorge and I are in nearly complete agreement on a point.
                  "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
                  --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jorge View Post

                    My reasoning is simple:

                    Suppose ANY "designer" other than God.
                    Okay, then what was the origin of that "designer"?
                    By logic and empiricism, infinite regression is not allowed.
                    Thus, two and only two options are possible: purely natural or supernatural.
                    I'll fix it for you Jorge:-

                    My reasoning is simple:

                    Suppose ANY "designer" other than my opinion of God.
                    Okay, then what was the origin of that other supernatural "designer"?
                    By logic and empiricism, infinite regression is not allowed.
                    Thus, two and only two options are possible: purely natural or my opinion of the supernatural.
                    Hope that helps, because other cultures do have concepts of God that don't require an origin.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
                      By Odin's right eye, I think this is a milestone: Jorge and I are in nearly complete agreement on a point.
                      Pagan boy!
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by seer View Post
                        Pagan boy!
                        Yes, I am a pagan. I rather take pride in that fact.
                        "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
                        --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by seer View Post
                          Intelligent design does not necessarily tells us who or what the designer is. And it is a play on the concept. An extraterrestrial would be intelligent, and directed panspermia would be design.
                          God is not an extraterrestrial, but that's actually a critique I have of this line of arguments. At most, and only if successful, you can establish the existence of something highly intelligent and powerful.

                          However its impossible, even in principle, to use intelligent design arguments to demonstrate God's existence. They might still have some utility though, and would at least provide some problems for an atheist. However the energy sunk into intelligent design I think isn't worth it.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Jorge View Post
                            I have long been at odds with core IDers on this point. I had exchanges with Bill Dembski on this dating back 13-14 years or so. Bluntly, as smart as many of the top IDers are (and they are smart!), I'm quite certain that on this issue they missed the proverbial boat.

                            My reasoning is simple:

                            Suppose ANY "designer" other than God.
                            Okay, then what was the origin of that "designer"?
                            By logic and empiricism, infinite regression is not allowed.
                            Thus, two and only two options are possible: purely natural or supernatural.

                            If purely natural then ID fails.

                            If supernatural, then God necessarily enters the picture.

                            Yet, IDers wish to avoid that inevitable option (God = Designer) at all cost.

                            In Without Excuse I go into more detail but above is the essence.

                            More than anything else, chirping sounds has been the response ...

                            Jorge
                            Yes, I generally agree, I just think it is interesting that some very respected scientists are literally theorizing an intelligent source for life on earth.
                            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                              God is not an extraterrestrial, but that's actually a critique I have of this line of arguments. At most, and only if successful, you can establish the existence of something highly intelligent and powerful.

                              However its impossible, even in principle, to use intelligent design arguments to demonstrate God's existence. They might still have some utility though, and would at least provide some problems for an atheist. However the energy sunk into intelligent design I think isn't worth it.
                              Like I said to Jorge, I just think it is interesting that some very respected scientists are literally theorizing an intelligent source for life on earth.
                              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                              Comment

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