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The quantum wave.

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Paprika View Post
    As far as we know, all particles are either elementary particles or composed of them. The existence of more fundamental descriptions is speculative, eg. string theory.
    I know, but something is interfering and causing the wave pattern to emerge on the detector screen in the double split experiment and I am just trying to find out if anyone has any idea, or can explain what it is.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
      The quantum is the entity which passes through the double slits. The wave function is a descriptor of that quantum. Asking "what is the wave made of?" is a bit like looking at a fast car and asking, "what is 80mph made of?"
      80 mph is not something that can cause an interference pattern, so I am not at all sure that to be a good analogy for what you are calling the quantum.

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      • #18
        I wonder if this statement makes sense: The universe has its own wave function.
        The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

        [T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

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        • #19
          Originally posted by JimL View Post
          80 mph is not something that can cause an interference pattern, so I am not at all sure that to be a good analogy for what you are calling the quantum.
          "80mph" is a description of the car's behavior. Similarly, the wave-function is a description of the quantum's behavior. The wave-function does not cause the interference pattern; it describes the behavior which causes the interference pattern.
          "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
          --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
            "80mph" is a description of the car's behavior. Similarly, the wave-function is a description of the quantum's behavior. The wave-function does not cause the interference pattern; it describes the behavior which causes the interference pattern.
            But what is it exactly that you are calling the quantum? You say it behaves in a certain way, and that it causes the wave pattern, so what exactly is the quantum?

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            • #21
              Originally posted by JimL View Post
              But what is it exactly that you are calling the quantum? You say it behaves in a certain way, and that it causes the wave pattern, so what exactly is the quantum?
              The word quantum is a descriptive word, and an adjective describing various aspects of the Quantum World, ie, Quantum particles, Quantum Waves, Quantum Mechanics and Quantum Gravity.
              Last edited by shunyadragon; 02-15-2015, 08:38 AM.
              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

              go with the flow the river knows . . .

              Frank

              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by JimL View Post
                But what is it exactly that you are calling the quantum? You say it behaves in a certain way, and that it causes the wave pattern, so what exactly is the quantum?
                A quantum is the minimal unit of an entity involved in an interaction.
                "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
                --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
                  A quantum is the minimal unit of an entity involved in an interaction.
                  So your answer then is that the minimal unit of an entity, or with regards to the double split experiment, the minimal unit of an electron (whatever that might be), is the cause of the wave pattern on the detector screen?

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                    The word quantum is a descriptive word, and an adjective describing various aspects of the Quantum World, ie, Quantum particles, Quantum Waves, Quantum Mechanics and Quantum Gravity.
                    Yes, that sounds more likely, but how is the quantum wave itself described. Is there an actual wave of some sort that passes through the slits to cause the interference pattern, or is the wave, which itself we can't see, just an abstract notion. If it is real, which, being that it interferes with the particle, it seems to be, what is it?

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by JimL View Post
                      So your answer then is that the minimal unit of an entity, or with regards to the double split experiment, the minimal unit of an electron (whatever that might be), is the cause of the wave pattern on the detector screen?
                      Yes, but with the clarification that an electron is a quantum. It already is a minimal unit. So, in the double-slit experiment, the photon/electron/other-quantum which passes through the slits is the cause of the wave-like behavior depicted by the interference pattern on the detector screen.
                      "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
                      --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
                        Yes, but with the clarification that an electron is a quantum. It already is a minimal unit. So, in the double-slit experiment, the photon/electron/other-quantum which passes through the slits is the cause of the wave-like behavior depicted by the interference pattern on the detector screen.
                        But the electron itself, if i am not mistaken, only goes through one of the slits, or are you saying that the one electron, as an electron, as a physical entity, passes through both slits at once?

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by JimL View Post
                          But the electron itself, if i am not mistaken, only goes through one of the slits, or are you saying that the one electron, as an electron, as a physical entity, passes through both slits at once?
                          That would accord with most interpretations of QM, yes: a single quantum-- one solitary electron, in this case-- passes through both slits.
                          "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
                          --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
                            That would accord with most interpretations of QM, yes: a single quantum-- one solitary electron, in this case-- passes through both slits.
                            Okay, you know better than I do, I'll have to look further into that, but it seems impossible. What if the slits were placed in a ten mile long surface and there were a million or a trillion slits, would the single electron pass through them all?

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by JimL View Post
                              Okay, you know better than I do, I'll have to look further into that, but it seems impossible. What if the slits were placed in a ten mile long surface and there were a million or a trillion slits, would the single electron pass through them all?
                              Nope. This behavior only occurs when the slits are extremely close together.
                              "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
                              --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
                                Nope. This behavior only occurs when the slits are extremely close together.
                                Okay, another question then comes to mind. If the quantum is both a particle and a wave, and the particle and the wave somehow goes through both slits, what happens to the wave, does it break in two, each half going through each slit.

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