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State of the Union - Climate change?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View Post
    In what professional scientific venues has Burt Rutan published his work on climate change? What professional climatologists have reviewed and agreed with his analysis?
    I honestly can't say. I was just curious if any of you have read his study, which is readily available online. The seemingly religious tenacity with which alarmists hold to their claims makes me suspicious of them*, but I freely confess that this is something I'm quite ignorant of. I probably won't be responding much more in this thread.

    *Particularly because the solution is only ever, inarguably, taken to be more government control. This makes me highly suspicious.
    I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View Post
      Please supply the source for that data. The chart isn't identified as global temperature change.
      It's from NCAR as the chart says. and I gave a link to the article previously (page 2 or 3) - which shows you are not bothering to even look at anyone's data in this thread.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
        I honestly can't say. I was just curious if any of you have read his study, which is readily available online. The seemingly religious tenacity with which alarmists hold to their claims makes me suspicious of them*, but I freely confess that this is something I'm quite ignorant of. I probably won't be responding much more in this thread.

        *Particularly because the solution is only ever, inarguably, taken to be more government control. This makes me highly suspicious.
        I generally don't have time to read every arm-chair amateur who self publishes "paradigm shaking science".

        Just like with Watts, if Rutan had anything of value he'd submit it to the proper scientific venues for review and publication. The web is full of cranks who think they know better than the professionals.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by seer View Post
          You know I wondered why they changed it from "Global Warming" to "Climate Change." Did they change the term to better deceive us? Or was it done for other reasons?
          Sorry, returning to the start of the thread, but wanted to clarify this: They were both used in parallel for many years. There was no actual change. They're still both heavily used, but climate change has been pulling away more recently.
          See: https://books.google.com/ngrams/grap...change%3B%2Cc0
          "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

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          • #50
            And, while i'm clarifying things....

            In the 1970s, when the popular press was focused on an impending ice age, the scientific community had already concluded that greenhouse warming was more likely. It was just a matter of the popular press running with a story that sounded (if you'll pardon the term) "hot", and not stopping to find out whether it was actually based on solid science.

            For more details, see:
            http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/...2008BAMS2370.1
            "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              Yeah and in 1975 the same scientists claimed the temperature fell .8 degrees F in 20 years...

              [ATTACH=CONFIG]169[/ATTACH]
              Careful citing limited old data with a limited time frame, and from a source that is not credible. It is unethical based on the over all evidence. I can vaguely see this misleading data in the graphs of the long term data in the following reference: https://www.google.com/search?q=aver...tm%3B600%3B405

              This might work better: http://www.aip.org/history/climate/20ctrend.htm for a book that goes into considerable scientific detail of long term trends.
              Last edited by shunyadragon; 01-29-2014, 05:03 PM.
              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

              go with the flow the river knows . . .

              Frank

              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                It's from NCAR as the chart says. and I gave a link to the article previously (page 2 or 3) - which shows you are not bothering to even look at anyone's data in this thread.
                You didn't link to the NCAR data. You linked to a 1975 popular press article by a non-scientist claiming it was from NCAR. I'd like to see the original data. Can you supply it or not?

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View Post
                  You didn't link to the NCAR data. You linked to a 1975 popular press article by a non-scientist claiming it was from NCAR. I'd like to see the original data. Can you supply it or not?
                  If you look at the site I referenced you can sort of detect this misleading graph embedded in the longer term data. I hope my links work.
                  Last edited by shunyadragon; 01-29-2014, 04:58 PM.
                  Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                  Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                  But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                  go with the flow the river knows . . .

                  Frank

                  I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                    If you look at the site I referenced you can sort of detect this misleading graph embedded in the longer term data. I hope my links work.
                    So this was just another instance of short term regression towards the mean being misrepresented by a non-scientist. That makes sense.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View Post
                      You didn't link to the NCAR data. You linked to a 1975 popular press article by a non-scientist claiming it was from NCAR. I'd like to see the original data. Can you supply it or not?

                      I am sure it was "adjusted" by now. You seem eager to dismiss anything that goes against what you want to believe on the topic anyway.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
                        The seemingly religious tenacity with which alarmists hold to their claims makes me suspicious of them.
                        I find this puzzling in the context of this thread. What is the problem with climate scientists - that they stick to their claims with a seemingly religious tenacity or that they change their views every few years? It seems that whatever they do, climate scientists are wrong; both changing and maintaining a view will be seen as failure!

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Did science predict global cooling in the 70s? Here's an overview of what was actually being said then:

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Jonathandavid View Post
                            Did science predict global cooling in the 70s? Here's an overview of what was actually being said then:

                            Quotes from a scifi movie? How low can you go.

                            Actually no, science did not predict a global Ice Age. What was predicted in the past was a future (not immediate future) of a gradual down turn in global temperatures based on some long term models. See the text New Views on an Old Planet. A history of Global Change. by Tjeerd H. Van Andel (published 1985-2000) As far back as 1985 this text discussed the possibilities of 'Climate Change' due to human influence.
                            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                            go with the flow the river knows . . .

                            Frank

                            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              I am sure it was "adjusted" by now. You seem eager to dismiss anything that goes against what you want to believe on the topic anyway.
                              Adjusted by now? The source is bogus. Did you see the source I cited showing where this graph is taken out of context of long term temperature change?
                              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                              go with the flow the river knows . . .

                              Frank

                              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                                I am sure it was "adjusted" by now. You seem eager to dismiss anything that goes against what you want to believe on the topic anyway.
                                It has nothing to do with 'believe". I accept the overwhelming scientific consensus based on the peer-reviewed published research results. I will gladly change my opinion if and when a sufficient quantity and quality of refuting data is ever offered. That category doesn't include wild unsubstantiated claims made on personal websites.

                                The reasoning of many AGW deniers seems to be

                                "I hate Al Gore,
                                Gore champions taking steps to combat AGW,
                                therefore AGW must be a fraud perpetrated by tens of thousands of climate scientists."

                                Not particularly sound logic.

                                Comment

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