Originally posted by Truthseeker
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Does gravity slap us into reality?
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βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
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Originally posted by robrecht View PostWouldn't the screen then be just a less intrusive detector? At what point does the detector become an intrusive element? Thanks.
Throughout the experiment, everything is performed completely identically. The laser and the slits are in the exact same position, in both cases. The only difference is that when there is nothing detecting through which slit each photon passes, they each pass through both. When there is a detector, each photon passes through only one or the other slit. This occurs regardless of whether the scientist performing the experiment is aware that the detector has been activated. He only observes the aftermath of the experiment, not the actual detection of the particles."[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
--Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)
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Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View PostThe scientist isn't observing the results from the detector, but rather the interference pattern which occurs. With no detector, there is an interference pattern consistent with a superposition. With a detector, the superposition collapses and the interference pattern changes.
I still don't get this. Yes in the double slit experiment you get two different results, physical results that one can see on the background screen. So how does observing or detecting the experiment change the pattern? Where is the PHYSICAL CONNECTION. How can just looking at something change the outcome?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfPeprQ7oGcAtheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Here's a very good introduction to the Double-Slit Experiment which I just found on YouTube:
Originally posted by seer View PostI still don't get this. Yes in the double slit experiment you get two different results, physical results that one can see on the background screen. So how does observing or detecting the experiment change the pattern? Where is the PHYSICAL CONNECTION. How can just looking at something change the outcome?"[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
--Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)
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Originally posted by seer View PostI still don't get this. Yes in the double slit experiment you get two different results, physical results that one can see on the background screen. So how does observing or detecting the experiment change the pattern? Where is the PHYSICAL CONNECTION. How can just looking at something change the outcome?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfPeprQ7oGc“I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
“And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
“not all there” - you know who you are
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Originally posted by firstfloor View PostObservation or detection IS a physical process. It changes the experiment.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostI know it changes the results. But how does my looking at it effect it - physically touch it? Is there something shooting out of my eyes that is interacting with the particles?"[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
--Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)
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Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View PostThe point of the Double Slit style experiments is to see through which slit the body in question passes. I'm not super familiar with how this is done for extremely large particles, like whole atoms or even molecules, but in the classical version using light, if each photon passes through only a single slit, the photons act like a beam of particles and concentrate in a single spot on the screen beyond the slits. However, if each photon passes through both slits at once, they behave in a wavelike manner, and the waves on the other side of the slit crash into each other to form an interference pattern.
Throughout the experiment, everything is performed completely identically. The laser and the slits are in the exact same position, in both cases. The only difference is that when there is nothing detecting through which slit each photon passes, they each pass through both. When there is a detector, each photon passes through only one or the other slit. This occurs regardless of whether the scientist performing the experiment is aware that the detector has been activated. He only observes the aftermath of the experiment, not the actual detection of the particles.
I know this sounds stupid to a trained scientist. Is it not somehow the mechanics of the close up detection process at the slit that is creating the change?βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
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Originally posted by robrecht View PostThanks. So it is as if the detectors prevent 'half-particles' (one part of the particle that would otherwise pass through both slits at the same time) from passing through. Is that not just an interaction between the detector and the particle? Like a sieve of some kind saying the spin or the charge or whatever unknown property there may of a particle that would otherwise go through two slits at the same time.
I know this sounds stupid to a trained scientist. Is it not somehow the mechanics of the close up detection process at the slit that is creating the change?
The curious part is that the quanta cease acting like waves and begin acting like particles, and we still don't really know how the detection process at the slit creates the change. We only know that it does."[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
--Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)
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Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View PostAgain, this is the central question of Quantum Mechanics. If there were a single, definitive answer, then we wouldn't have at least a dozen different equally plausible physical interpretations of the phenomenon. There is almost certainly a Nobel Prize awaiting the scientist or team that solves this one.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostWe yes, if it could be solved. And can you give me one plausible physical interpretation for how this could happen?"[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
--Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)
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Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View PostThe most common one is the Copenhagen interpretation. Quanta are probabilistic in nature with the probability distribution corresponding to behavior which appears wave-like. The set of all possible positions which a quantum can occupy is called its superposition. However, the act of observing a particular quantum necessarily implies knowing where that particular quantum cannot be, thereby eliminating all but one possible position from its superposition. Since there is now only one position possible for the quantum, it behaves like a particle.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostThat still does not get us to the actual physical connection. How does the simple act of viewing do anything? Touch anything?"[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
--Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)
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Are the particles or quanta in the process of constantly coming into and going out of existence?βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
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