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Materialists: Contradictions and Hypocrisy

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  • Materialists: Contradictions and Hypocrisy

    I have long maintained that Materialists (this includes Atheists, Humanists and certain Theistic Evolutionists) absolutely cannot live their in a consistent fashion. In other words, they will preach one set of Materialistic "principles" (such as Darwinism) while living their lives - or at least wanting to live their lives - according to a different set that contradicts Materialism/Darwinism.

    In a nutshell, the primary reason for this contradiction/hypocrisy is that the world that Materialists preach isn't one that any sane human being would want to live in. Give them some credit, Materialists may be a lot of bad things but they aren't totally stupid!

    Once again I found the guy who is certainly amongst the most well-known Materialists in the world today - Richard Dawkins - supporting my point and then some. Here's what ol' Richard said:

    “What we need is a truly anti-Darwinian society… in the sense that we don’t wish to live in a society where the weakest go to the wall, where the strongest suppress the weak, and even kill the weak. We — I, at least — do not wish to live in that kind of society. I want to live in the sort of society where we take care of the sick, where we take care of the weak, take care of the oppressed, which is a very anti-Darwinian society.” Richard Dawkins Lecture at Kennesaw State University, November 21, 2014.

    As I said, Dawkins may be many bad things - a hypocrite that lives and promotes a contradiction being just one - but he is not totally clueless. He wants his Materialistic world, free to do as he pleases without any restraints, but when the chips are down and the illnesses and troubles of old age begin to take their toll on his wretched body, he then wants a CHRISTIAN world firmly in place to care for him. His own Materialistic world would summarily shove him into a ditch for being a "useless eater", weak and sick, unable to compete, unable to produce offspring, unfit for the Darwinian struggle for life.

    Darwinian Hypocrite!!! And in this he is far, very far, from being alone.

    Jorge

  • #2
    Originally posted by Jorge View Post
    “What we need is a truly anti-Darwinian society… in the sense that we don’t wish to live in a society where the weakest go to the wall, where the strongest suppress the weak, and even kill the weak. We — I, at least — do not wish to live in that kind of society. I want to live in the sort of society where we take care of the sick, where we take care of the weak, take care of the oppressed, which is a very anti-Darwinian society.” Richard Dawkins Lecture at Kennesaw State University, November 21, 2014.

    Jorge
    This is so true. A while back I asked why what the Europeans did to the American Indians was objectively wrong. It seems to me that that was a very successful evolutionary strategy.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Jorge View Post
      I have long maintained that Materialists (this includes Atheists, Humanists and certain Theistic Evolutionists) absolutely cannot live their in a consistent fashion. In other words, they will preach one set of Materialistic "principles" (such as Darwinism) while living their lives - or at least wanting to live their lives - according to a different set that contradicts Materialism/Darwinism.

      In a nutshell, the primary reason for this contradiction/hypocrisy is that the world that Materialists preach isn't one that any sane human being would want to live in. Give them some credit, Materialists may be a lot of bad things but they aren't totally stupid!

      Once again I found the guy who is certainly amongst the most well-known Materialists in the world today - Richard Dawkins - supporting my point and then some. Here's what ol' Richard said:

      “What we need is a truly anti-Darwinian society… in the sense that we don’t wish to live in a society where the weakest go to the wall, where the strongest suppress the weak, and even kill the weak. We — I, at least — do not wish to live in that kind of society. I want to live in the sort of society where we take care of the sick, where we take care of the weak, take care of the oppressed, which is a very anti-Darwinian society.” Richard Dawkins Lecture at Kennesaw State University, November 21, 2014.

      As I said, Dawkins may be many bad things - a hypocrite that lives and promotes a contradiction being just one - but he is not totally clueless. He wants his Materialistic world, free to do as he pleases without any restraints, but when the chips are down and the illnesses and troubles of old age begin to take their toll on his wretched body, he then wants a CHRISTIAN world firmly in place to care for him. His own Materialistic world would summarily shove him into a ditch for being a "useless eater", weak and sick, unable to compete, unable to produce offspring, unfit for the Darwinian struggle for life.

      Darwinian Hypocrite!!! And in this he is far, very far, from being alone.
      Why should a Materialist need to tie their ethics to natural biological processes? What is contradictory or hypocritical about differentiating that which we know about biology from that which we claim about ethics? You might as well claim that Materialists are hypocrites for not tying their ethics to Gravitational Theory or the Pythagorean Theorem. It seems a complete non-sequitur.
      "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
      --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
        Why should a Materialist need to tie their ethics to natural biological processes? What is contradictory or hypocritical about differentiating that which we know about biology from that which we claim about ethics?
        How could there be anything but the "natural biological process" if materialism is true?
        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by seer View Post
          How could there be anything but the "natural biological process" if materialism is true?
          Allow me to clarify:

          Why should a Materialist need to tie their ethics to natural biological processes which explain the diversity of organic life? What is contradictory or hypocritical about differentiating that which we know about biological diversity from that which we claim about ethics?
          "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
          --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
            Allow me to clarify:

            Why should a Materialist need to tie their ethics to natural biological processes which explain the diversity of organic life? What is contradictory or hypocritical about differentiating that which we know about biological diversity from that which we claim about ethics?
            But isn't keeping the weak and infirmed alive detrimental to the species as a whole, especially if they reproduce? Dawkins is correct - it is very anti-Darwinian. And to the materialist what is more important than the survival of the species?
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by seer View Post
              But isn't keeping the weak and infirmed alive detrimental to the species as a whole, especially if they reproduce? Dawkins is correct - it is very anti-Darwinian. And to the materialist what is more important than the survival of the species?
              Lots of things can be more important to the materialist than the survival of the species. It depends on the materialist, in question.

              Furthermore "weak" is a particularly relative term. Even if a materialist were to tie his ethics to the welfare of the species, as a whole, biological fitness is not necessarily a function of physical strength. For example, it could quite easily be argued that 135-pound medical researcher with Cystic Fibrosis provides a greater boon to the fitness of the human species than does a 220-pound professional bodybuilder. However, more to the point, naturalist philosophers can quite easily argue that the sense of human worth engendered by the protection of the physically weak or infirm provides a survival benefit which can quite easily outweigh the negatives-- as evidenced by the fact that the human population has septupled in the past 200 years, when care for the "weak" has been greater than at any other time in human history.
              "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
              --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by seer View Post
                This is so true. A while back I asked why what the Europeans did to the American Indians was objectively wrong. It seems to me that that was a very successful evolutionary strategy.
                Three points:

                First, conservatives often state that the U.S. was founded as a Christian nation. And it was these "Christian founding fathers" who perpetrated the decimation of the native American tribes. So much for "absolute morality" being found in the bible. Rather, this "absolute morality" is just a reflection of the morality of the society at large at the time.

                Second, biological evolutioinary theory is descriptive and not prescriptive. It (like all other scientific theories) describes a naturalistic process and (like all other scientific theories) does not dictate morals or ethics.

                Third, there is a biological basis for behavioral characteristics such as reciprocity and altruism which is found in animals that form social groups. These behaviors actually promote the biological success of the group and thus are a successful "Darwinian" strategy.


                If that quote is given in its full context, then I'd have to disagree with Dawkins on all counts.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jorge View Post
                  He wants his Materialistic world, free to do as he pleases without any restraints, but when the chips are down and the illnesses and troubles of old age begin to take their toll on his wretched body.
                  There is no hypocrisy. All societies including religious societies are artificial constructs created by human beings in accordance with natural laws. God’s law is also artificially constructed by men because God is a sock puppet. Religious folks are people who do not see the human manipulation of the sock puppet God. It is as simple as that but millions are taken in by it.
                  “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                  “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                  “not all there” - you know who you are

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
                    Lots of things can be more important to the materialist than the survival of the species. It depends on the materialist, in question.

                    Furthermore "weak" is a particularly relative term. Even if a materialist were to tie his ethics to the welfare of the species, as a whole, biological fitness is not necessarily a function of physical strength. For example, it could quite easily be argued that 135-pound medical researcher with Cystic Fibrosis provides a greater boon to the fitness of the human species than does a 220-pound professional bodybuilder. However, more to the point, naturalist philosophers can quite easily argue that the sense of human worth engendered by the protection of the physically weak or infirm provides a survival benefit which can quite easily outweigh the negatives-- as evidenced by the fact that the human population has septupled in the past 200 years, when care for the "weak" has been greater than at any other time in human history.
                    Ok, that makes sense. I wonder why Dawkins doesn't see it that way.
                    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by seer View Post
                      Ok, that makes sense. I wonder why Dawkins doesn't see it that way.
                      Dawkins is a respected and credentialed biologist, but he has no qualifications in and little comprehension of philosophy.
                      "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
                      --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
                        Dawkins is a respected and credentialed biologist, but he has no qualifications in and little comprehension of philosophy.
                        Yes, but your points are pretty straight forward. Historical and somewhat self-evident.
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by seer View Post
                          Yes, but your points are pretty straight forward. Historical and somewhat self-evident.
                          Yep. I agree that it's fairly strange that someone might overlook so obvious and natural an answer to the question, but as I said, Dawkins' comprehension of philosophy is rather poor.
                          "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
                          --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Jorge View Post
                            I have long maintained that Materialists (this includes Atheists, Humanists and certain Theistic Evolutionists) absolutely cannot live their in a consistent fashion. In other words, they will preach one set of Materialistic "principles" (such as Darwinism) while living their lives - or at least wanting to live their lives - according to a different set that contradicts Materialism/Darwinism.

                            In a nutshell, the primary reason for this contradiction/hypocrisy is that the world that Materialists preach isn't one that any sane human being would want to live in. Give them some credit, Materialists may be a lot of bad things but they aren't totally stupid!

                            Once again I found the guy who is certainly amongst the most well-known Materialists in the world today - Richard Dawkins - supporting my point and then some. Here's what ol' Richard said:

                            “What we need is a truly anti-Darwinian society… in the sense that we don’t wish to live in a society where the weakest go to the wall, where the strongest suppress the weak, and even kill the weak. We — I, at least — do not wish to live in that kind of society. I want to live in the sort of society where we take care of the sick, where we take care of the weak, take care of the oppressed, which is a very anti-Darwinian society.” Richard Dawkins Lecture at Kennesaw State University, November 21, 2014.

                            As I said, Dawkins may be many bad things - a hypocrite that lives and promotes a contradiction being just one - but he is not totally clueless. He wants his Materialistic world, free to do as he pleases without any restraints, but when the chips are down and the illnesses and troubles of old age begin to take their toll on his wretched body, he then wants a CHRISTIAN world firmly in place to care for him. His own Materialistic world would summarily shove him into a ditch for being a "useless eater", weak and sick, unable to compete, unable to produce offspring, unfit for the Darwinian struggle for life.

                            Darwinian Hypocrite!!! And in this he is far, very far, from being alone.

                            Jorge
                            Ah, I see One Note Nellie is back at it.

                            K54

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Jorge View Post
                              I have long maintained that Materialists (this includes Atheists, Humanists and certain Theistic Evolutionists) absolutely cannot live their in a consistent fashion. In other words, they will preach one set of Materialistic "principles" (such as Darwinism) while living their lives - or at least wanting to live their lives - according to a different set that contradicts Materialism/Darwinism.

                              In a nutshell, the primary reason for this contradiction/hypocrisy is that the world that Materialists preach isn't one that any sane human being would want to live in. Give them some credit, Materialists may be a lot of bad things but they aren't totally stupid!

                              Once again I found the guy who is certainly amongst the most well-known Materialists in the world today - Richard Dawkins - supporting my point and then some. Here's what ol' Richard said:

                              “What we need is a truly anti-Darwinian society… in the sense that we don’t wish to live in a society where the weakest go to the wall, where the strongest suppress the weak, and even kill the weak. We — I, at least — do not wish to live in that kind of society. I want to live in the sort of society where we take care of the sick, where we take care of the weak, take care of the oppressed, which is a very anti-Darwinian society.” Richard Dawkins Lecture at Kennesaw State University, November 21, 2014.

                              As I said, Dawkins may be many bad things - a hypocrite that lives and promotes a contradiction being just one - but he is not totally clueless. He wants his Materialistic world, free to do as he pleases without any restraints, but when the chips are down and the illnesses and troubles of old age begin to take their toll on his wretched body, he then wants a CHRISTIAN world firmly in place to care for him. His own Materialistic world would summarily shove him into a ditch for being a "useless eater", weak and sick, unable to compete, unable to produce offspring, unfit for the Darwinian struggle for life.

                              Darwinian Hypocrite!!! And in this he is far, very far, from being alone.

                              Jorge
                              Beaten on the science for all these years, you don't have much left beyond farting and darting, do you Jorge.

                              Comment

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