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Robot Sub Finds Surprisingly Thick Antarctic Sea Ice

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  • #16
    Originally posted by pancreasman View Post
    I have a physics degree, but I don't understand climate science. It's very complex. As with any subject I don't fully understand my default position is to go with strong consensus of scientists trained and working in that field. Could they be wrong? Possibly. But the alternative is to ignore sound advice. Is climate change not at least contributed to by the actions of humanity? Possibly. But if we do nothing, then again we ignore that sound advice. On something as critical as the climate on our only planet, I think we'd be foolish not to take action if only 'just in case'. Our children and grandchildren deserve at least that.
    What nobody seems to be able to answer is "what results will [whatever] action produce"?

    I mean, there's all the dire warnings, but there are also cost/benefit considerations.
    At what cost do we do something for which we have no way of knowing the actual benefit.

    And, yes, climate science is, by all accounts, quite complex. I think it's even more complex than the earlier modelers had thought.

    And I was responding, particularly, to Shuny's statement:
    The problem is regardless of whether human influence is real or to what extent it is real, the natural trends of climate change is enough to upset the apple cart, our food supply.
    He was allowing for the possibility that "climate change" (formerly known as global warming) is not due to human influence. Now, perhaps he didn't intend to make that allowance, but I chose to pursue that possibility. IF "climate change" is NOT caused by human influence, then what influence can humans have on "undoing" or mitigating "climate change"?
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      Therein lies the problem --- if they are not "human influenced", then what can humans do to influence them to... do what, exactly?
      Well, it remains the overwhelming evidence is that humans are influencing the climate, but yes the question is how much. I believe there is actually little that can be done to significantly reduce the human influence, because of the world wide demand for energy and the growing population. I believe the emphasis should be we have to learn to deal with climate change. Many of the same things we are trying to do help could such as, reducing carbon based energy demands, and reduce the human impact on the environment. A considerable part of the problem is we are a wasteful, indulgent and trashy culture, and we are spreading this disease worldwide.
      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

      go with the flow the river knows . . .

      Frank

      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
        Well, it remains the overwhelming evidence is that humans are influencing the climate, but yes the question is how much. I believe there is actually little that can be done to significantly reduce the human influence, because of the world wide demand for energy and the growing population. I believe the emphasis should be we have to learn to deal with climate change. Many of the same things we are trying to do help could such as, reducing carbon based energy demands, and reduce the human impact on the environment. A considerable part of the problem is we are a wasteful, indulgent and trashy culture, and we are spreading this disease worldwide.
        At least that's a response!
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
          Why should people be puzzled? The theory of anthropogenic global warming has not gained empirical ground for many years now.
          The last doubter will be in a minority of one but he will still be convinced that he is right.

          http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/8/2/024024/article

          “We analyze the evolution of the scientific consensus on anthropogenic global warming (AGW) in the peer-reviewed scientific literature, examining 11 944 climate abstracts from 1991–2011 matching the topics 'global climate change' or 'global warming'. We find that 66.4% of abstracts expressed no position on AGW, 32.6% endorsed AGW, 0.7% rejected AGW and 0.3% were uncertain about the cause of global warming. Among abstracts expressing a position on AGW, 97.1% endorsed the consensus position that humans are causing global warming. In a second phase of this study, we invited authors to rate their own papers. Compared to abstract ratings, a smaller percentage of self-rated papers expressed no position on AGW (35.5%). Among self-rated papers expressing a position on AGW, 97.2% endorsed the consensus. For both abstract ratings and authors' self-ratings, the percentage of endorsements among papers expressing a position on AGW marginally increased over time. Our analysis indicates that the number of papers rejecting the consensus on AGW is a vanishingly small proportion of the published research.”
          “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
          “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
          “not all there” - you know who you are

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by pancreasman View Post
            ... Our children and grandchildren deserve at least that.
            According to a study published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, even if we cease and desist all emissions effective immediately, there will be no decrease in temperatures. Our grandchildren's grandchildren will be long dead and still there would be no reversing it.

            "People have imagined that if we stopped emitting carbon dioxide that the climate would go back to normal in 100 years or 200 years. What we're showing here is that's not right. It's essentially an irreversible change that will last for more than a thousand years," the lead scientist of the study says.
            That's what
            - She

            Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
            - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

            I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
            - Stephen R. Donaldson

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
              According to a study published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, even if we cease and desist all emissions effective immediately, there will be no decrease in temperatures. Our grandchildren's grandchildren will be long dead and still there would be no reversing it.

              "People have imagined that if we stopped emitting carbon dioxide that the climate would go back to normal in 100 years or 200 years. What we're showing here is that's not right. It's essentially an irreversible change that will last for more than a thousand years," the lead scientist of the study says.
              Stopping climate change is like trying to stop a train by standing in front of it.
              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

              go with the flow the river knows . . .

              Frank

              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                Stopping climate change is like trying to stop a train by standing in front of it.
                Meanwhile, people will find ways to get rich off proposing "fixes". This will be (and already is being) exploited to the max.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  Meanwhile, people will find ways to get rich off proposing "fixes". This will be (and already is being) exploited to the max.
                  Climate science/politics is big business. It's an industry. That is why the terminology changed from "Global Warming" to "Climate Change" - so they could play both sides of the issue. If it gets warmer, we have to fix it. If it gets cooler we have to fix it. win/win for them.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                    According to a study published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, even if we cease and desist all emissions effective immediately, there will be no decrease in temperatures. Our grandchildren's grandchildren will be long dead and still there would be no reversing it.

                    "People have imagined that if we stopped emitting carbon dioxide that the climate would go back to normal in 100 years or 200 years. What we're showing here is that's not right. It's essentially an irreversible change that will last for more than a thousand years," the lead scientist of the study says.
                    And in the meantime, you actually cause global havoc and chaos by disrupting the industrial economies of the world.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      I'm guessing that's why they call them overlapping climate cycles? Because they over lap?
                      The overlap is real you have cycles of ~7 to 11 years, over lapping cycles of ~60 to 100 years in cycles a thousands of years and more. The problem is you cannot evaluate climate change on just a few years data. Current climate models of human influence covers more then a thousand years.
                      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                      go with the flow the river knows . . .

                      Frank

                      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by seanD View Post
                        And in the meantime, you actually cause global havoc and chaos by disrupting the industrial economies of the world.
                        There is no plan to do this. All the current plans involve a transition to less polluting sources and none carbon sources of energy. No, Chicken Little, the sky is not going to fall, but if we do not begin to change where ever possible, the sky may be in trouble.
                        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                        go with the flow the river knows . . .

                        Frank

                        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                          There is no plan to do this. All the current plans involve a transition to less polluting sources and none carbon sources of energy. No, Chicken Little, the sky is not going to fall, but if we do not begin to change where ever possible, the sky may be in trouble.
                          The sky is not fixable.
                          That's what
                          - She

                          Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                          - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                          I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                          - Stephen R. Donaldson

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                            The sky is not fixable.
                            Unless God wants to.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                              The sky is not fixable.
                              We here at rogue tech are willing to try. You just have to foot the bill for the duct tape and spackling.

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                                Stopping climate change is like trying to stop a train by standing in front of it.

                                Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                                There is no plan to do this. All the current plans involve a transition to less polluting sources and none carbon sources of energy. No, Chicken Little, the sky is not going to fall, but if we do not begin to change where ever possible, the sky may be in trouble.

                                Comment

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