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The Case for the soul.

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  • #16
    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
    Very interesting course!! He appears to take a strict material Philosophical Naturalist view in the first two videos I listened to. The strong skeptical view toward religion is useful to me, because it is the starting point for my personal philosophy. Even though I believe in God, and the soul, I am not deluded by the claims of scientific evidence or other anecdotal and dubious claims from various religious perspectives. I want to spend more time to go over the materials on the Youtube videos and comment more.
    Thankfully Shuny, we do not need science to KNOW that the soul exists...
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by seer View Post
      Thankfully Shuny, we do not need science to KNOW that the soul exists...
      No, but you should at the very least have empirical evidence for it.
      “The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.” - Richard Dawkins

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by seer View Post
        Thankfully Shuny, we do not need science to KNOW that the soul exists...
        I don't seer. Again read my posts in proper context. I believe in Methodological Naturalism, and expect nothing from science to demonstrate evidence for the existence of God nor the soul.
        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

        go with the flow the river knows . . .

        Frank

        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by ChaosRain View Post
          No, but you should at the very least have empirical evidence for it.
          Good luck.
          “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
          “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
          “not all there” - you know who you are

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          • #20
            Originally posted by ChaosRain View Post
            No, but you should at the very least have empirical evidence for it.
            Why? Why would you even think that an immaterial soul would present such evidence.
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
              I don't seer. Again read my posts in proper context. I believe in Methodological Naturalism, and expect nothing from science to demonstrate evidence for the existence of God nor the soul.

              Good, so we both agree that the soul exists in spite of what "science says."
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by seer View Post
                Good, so we both agree that the soul exists in spite of what "science says."
                Actually seer, No. There remains a problem of you citing me out of context, and the fact that you still do not accept 'Methodological Naturalism.'
                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                Frank

                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                  Actually seer, No. There remains a problem of you citing me out of context, and the fact that you still do not accept 'Methodological Naturalism.'
                  That is not the point Shuny. Are you claiming that we need science to confirm the soul, or that science can confirm the soul? Or do you agree that the soul exists in spite of what science says?
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by seer View Post
                    That is not the point Shuny. Are you claiming that we need science to confirm the soul, or that science can confirm the soul? Or do you agree that the soul exists in spite of what science says?
                    No need for further comment. My posts are clear and concise.
                    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                    go with the flow the river knows . . .

                    Frank

                    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by seer View Post
                      Why? Why would you even think that an immaterial soul would present such evidence.
                      Then not only must you prove that a soul exists, but you must also prove that the immaterial exists. Because, without evidence, you have nothing but faith, and as we all know, faith gets us nowhere.
                      “The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.” - Richard Dawkins

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by ChaosRain View Post
                        Then not only must you prove that a soul exists, but you must also prove that the immaterial exists. Because, without evidence, you have nothing but faith, and as we all know, faith gets us nowhere.
                        I disagree, it must be realized up front the Methodological Naturalism stands alone as the science of our physical existence only whether you are a believer or not. Ones' belief is more firm and real foundation when this is accepted. Ones' faith is stronger when it is in harmony with the Methodological Naturalism of our physical existence, as it is in the Baha'i Faith.

                        I find nothing specifically wrong with Philosophical Naturalism, because it is based on sound science, but it is incomplete.
                        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                        go with the flow the river knows . . .

                        Frank

                        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          this is all mixed up.

                          People who know they have a soul (because their Maker allowed them to know) cannot prove this to other people.

                          The only One who does the 'proving' is the Maker Himself, on an individual basis
                          i.e., when persons become born again.

                          To prove this to another person is like Wilbur trying to convince them Mr Ed talks.

                          ....s' just the way it is.
                          To say that crony capitalism is not true/free market capitalism, is like saying a grand slam is not true baseball, or like saying scoring a touchdown is not true American football ...Stefan Mykhaylo D

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by ChaosRain View Post
                            Then not only must you prove that a soul exists, but you must also prove that the immaterial exists. Because, without evidence, you have nothing but faith, and as we all know, faith gets us nowhere.
                            Really? Prove the above. Prove that only things that are demonstrable by scientific means are valid or true.
                            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by seer View Post
                              Really? Prove the above. Prove that only things that are demonstrable by scientific means are valid or true.
                              Show me something that is not scientifically valid that is true, and then we can discuss this. You have the Burden of Proof, not me.
                              “The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.” - Richard Dawkins

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by ChaosRain View Post
                                Show me something that is not scientifically valid that is true, and then we can discuss this. You have the Burden of Proof, not me.
                                Logic. You can't prove logic to be true scientifically, since you must assume logic works to do science in the first place.

                                Comment

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