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Are YECs ignorant, dumb, or stupid?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Tassman View Post
    And neither have I proclaimed that others are unforgivable; it’s their behaviour, i.e. promoting ignorance that is unforgivable in my view.
    Do you think that YECs are purposely misleading people? Do you think there's a possibility they may actually believe what they're "promoting"?
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Tassman View Post
      And neither have I proclaimed that others are unforgivable; it’s their behaviour, i.e. promoting ignorance that is unforgivable in my view.
      Aha, so you are willing to forgive the people, but not their behavior. You love the sinner but not the sin, so to speak. Very commendable of you.
      βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
      ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

      אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by robrecht View Post
        Aha, so you are willing to forgive the people, but not their behavior. You love the sinner but not the sin, so to speak. Very commendable of you.
        So glad you approve. And you.....?
        “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Tassman View Post
          So glad you approve. And you.....?
          Me? What? Do I forgive others? Sure! Do I hate ignorance, especially willful ignornace? Sure! I don't think I know any YECers in real life, 'though I kind of sort of know a couple here.
          βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
          ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

          אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by klaus54 View Post
            This should really be a poll, but which in view of (literally) mountains of evidence,

            Which option fits best for the vociferous YECs you know?

            1) Ignorant (unaware of the evidence)

            2) Dumb (unable to process the evidence)

            3) Stupid (holding to an unsupportable view in spite of the evidence)


            K54


            If someone knows how to set up a poll, please let me know,
            I think, based on my own experience, that YEC isn't so much a matter of (1), (2) or (3). I'd argue that (3) doesn't fit the definition of the term but that's just me.

            We see motivated reasoning pretty much everywhere by pretty much everyone in some form or degree. Very smart, knowledgeable people can and do say very stupid and seemingly ignorant things when evidence contradicts a dearly-held belief. It's why Obamacare will always be a failure, even to very smart Conservatives. It's why vaccines will always cause autism, even to some very smart medical professionals. And it's why even very smart, highly-trained scientists like John Sanford can believe YEC claims. Doesn't make it right in the least but, at least for me, it gives a certain sense of understanding resignation to human nature.

            To misquote Upton Sinclair, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his religious belief depends on his not understanding it."
            "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              Do you think that YECs are purposely misleading people? Do you think there's a possibility they may actually believe what they're "promoting"?
              YEC’s have no excuse for ignorance. The facts, which are beyond any reasonable doubt, are there for all to see.
              “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                Some are just very nice people who don't have any interest in or use for science.
                They are that and more than that. They are a witness to the truth-claims of Christianity. Their errors in describing the things we can verify enable our rejection of things that cannot be shown. If Christianity is so weak it cannot cast off these lies we can discover, how can we trust it to reveal truth at all.

                Not that this thread has anything to do with science, or truth. It's pure troll bait. It belongs somewhere more appropriate.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                  YEC’s have no excuse for ignorance. The facts, which are beyond any reasonable doubt, are there for all to see.
                  My! You sound like you are almost quoting from scripture! Romans 1, to be exact!

                  18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

                  19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.

                  20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

                  21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

                  22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,

                  23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.

                  24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them.

                  25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.


                  Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                    My! You sound like you are almost quoting from scripture! Romans 1, to be exact!
                    Once again, this is about biological evolution, not the existence of God. The two are separate, independent topics.
                    Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                    I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

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                    • #25
                      It's a silly question, since YEC theorizing has about as much real influence in popular scientific circles as Republicans have real political influence in Washington.

                      The correct form of the question is:

                      1) Are YECs as a whole more or less Ignorant (unaware of the evidence) than the feminists, sex perverts, Marxists, incompetents, and race hustlers who have been fellow travelers in your Atheism Plus coalition?

                      2) Are YECs more or less Dumb (unable to process the evidence) than the feminists, sex perverts, Marxists, incompetents, and race hustlers who have been fellow travelers in your Atheism Plus coalition?

                      3) Are YECs more or less Stupid (holding to an unsupportable view in spite of the evidence) than the feminists, sex perverts, Marxists, incompetents, and race hustlers who have been fellow travelers in your Atheism Plus coalition?

                      Was it YEC extremists who got James Watson, the co-discoverer of DNA, fired? Was it YEC extremists who forced Dr. Matt Taylor to apologize for offending their religious sensibilities despite having just accomplished a feat of astrophysics that no one else in the world had ever done? Was it YEC extremists who destroyed the disinterested study of the social sciences and suppressed research on human development?

                      As much as you like to dump on Jorge, I personally think he could argue rings around any one of them, and probably with less of a contemptibly supplicating attitude.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by square_peg View Post
                        Once again, this is about biological evolution, not the existence of God. The two are separate, independent topics.
                        They are not different to Tassman. Both are an affront to him. The OP by-the-way did not spell out the distinction you are making. It demeans the position of YEC. So biological evolution, age of the earth, existence of God are all fair play to Tass (and probably klaus54).
                        Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Epoetker View Post
                          It's a silly question, since YEC theorizing has about as much real influence in popular scientific circles as Republicans have real political influence in Washington.

                          The correct form of the question is:

                          1) Are YECs as a whole more or less Ignorant (unaware of the evidence) than the feminists, sex perverts, Marxists, incompetents, and race hustlers who have been fellow travelers in your Atheism Plus coalition?

                          2) Are YECs more or less Dumb (unable to process the evidence) than the feminists, sex perverts, Marxists, incompetents, and race hustlers who have been fellow travelers in your Atheism Plus coalition?

                          3) Are YECs more or less Stupid (holding to an unsupportable view in spite of the evidence) than the feminists, sex perverts, Marxists, incompetents, and race hustlers who have been fellow travelers in your Atheism Plus coalition?

                          Was it YEC extremists who got James Watson, the co-discoverer of DNA, fired? Was it YEC extremists who forced Dr. Matt Taylor to apologize for offending their religious sensibilities despite having just accomplished a feat of astrophysics that no one else in the world had ever done? Was it YEC extremists who destroyed the disinterested study of the social sciences and suppressed research on human development?

                          As much as you like to dump on Jorge, I personally think he could argue rings around any one of them, and probably with less of a contemptibly supplicating attitude.
                          In spite of you bringing in extraneous topics I approve this post.
                          Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by lao tzu View Post
                            They are that and more than that. They are a witness to the truth-claims of Christianity. Their errors in describing the things we can verify enable our rejection of things that cannot be shown. If Christianity is so weak it cannot cast off these lies we can discover, how can we trust it to reveal truth at all.

                            Not that this thread has anything to do with science, or truth. It's pure troll bait. It belongs somewhere more appropriate.
                            Interesting points. I suppose if the primary aim of the church was to present the most credible or intellectually defensible formulation of the Christian faith, we should excommunicate YECs and all others whose beliefs detract from this mission. But our mission is not purely or even primarily intellectual. We let pretty much anyone in who wants to be a member of the community. Hopefully there are some who can take up the intellectual mission some success, theologians or apologists, I suppose. I would hope that you would not judge the value of Christian faith merely on the basis of some who have premodern, unscientific, or anti-scientific views.
                            βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                            ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                            אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by square_peg View Post
                              Once again, this is about biological evolution, not the existence of God. The two are separate, independent topics.
                              Oh, I thought Tassy and CP were discussing some horrible act of Christians indoctrinating children regarding biological or any other kind of evolution. And we obviously have some evil plan to purposely mislead and foment ignorance and stupidity and, what is that other word -- dumbness, I guess, in future generations!

                              So, it seems to me you can hardly separate the two topics as you appear to want to.

                              This entire thread is nothing BUT those who think they are wise in their own eyes, who refuse to see God in everything that is around them, who have NO excuse for ignoring God, calling us, and that includes ME, ignorant, dumb, and stupid because we believe God created everything.

                              You know that this is what this thread is about, and you can toss in all the different definitions of evolution you want to, but it doesn't change a thing.

                              Obviously when you can't convince a YEC they are wrong, you simply resort to name calling.

                              How sad.


                              Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                And at the risk of back to back posting, I am going to add this:

                                I do not care what any of you call me. I do not care what any of you think of me. I only care what God thinks of me. And He thinks I am a sinner redeemed by the blood of Jesus Christ, and I am His child.

                                Nothing else matters.
                                Last edited by mossrose; 11-16-2014, 09:26 AM.


                                Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                                Comment

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