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Why is there something rather then nothing?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
    '
    I agree that the term 'nothing' in science is misleading, but go along with it for convenience. The assumption is not based on 'since we exist,' but based on the current 'Quantum Theory,' especially 'Quantum Gravity,' and how things function without time and space in a Quantum World.
    physicist hacker? http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/e...xperiment.html
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
    “not all there” - you know who you are

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    • #17
      Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
      It even does not have the property of existence.
      Existence is not a property.

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      • #18
        For what it's worth, the wonderful Martin Gardner spent some time writing about the nature of "nothing"

        http://www.amazon.com/The-Colossal-B.../dp/0393020231

        "There is still a difference between something and nothing, but it is purely geometrical and there is nothing behind the geometry."

        ``Martin Gardner

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
          Existence is not a property.
          If it is not a property in itself it perhaps is a pre-requisite for the acquisition of any property. Or, if anything can be assigned a property, it exists.
          “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
          “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
          “not all there” - you know who you are

          Comment


          • #20
            It's kind of a paradox. A fictitious character, Batman for example, does not exist in the real world and yet we are not talking gibberish when we talk of Batman. The word refers to something "real." I don't think that's enough to rescue the concept of nothingness, but it is something to think about.
            O Gladsome Light of the Holy Glory of the Immortal Father, Heavenly, Holy, Blessed Jesus Christ! Now that we have come to the setting of the sun and behold the light of evening, we praise God Father, Son and Holy Spirit. For meet it is at all times to worship Thee with voices of praise. O Son of God and Giver of Life, therefore all the world doth glorify Thee.

            A neat video of dead languages!

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
              If it is not a property in itself it perhaps is a pre-requisite for the acquisition of any property. Or, if anything can be assigned a property, it exists.
              It seems we can. Its quite possible to talk about about the properties of objects that don't exist, but are entirely hypothetical. You could talk about the abstract conception of these objects existing (at least in the realm of mental ideas).

              We can conceive of a blue panther... such a panther doesn't really exist, however we could get Industrial Lights and Magic to do a realistic rendering of how such a blue panther would look like. So we can discuss the properties of an abstract panther, yet here we're clearly talking abstractly about the properties of an object that doesn't exist.

              The reason existence can't be property is that it then becomes really hard to make sense of what it means to say that an object is... do have to image that all objects somehow have being, only with an uncountable infinity of them having their property '.existence.set = false'? Its simpler and in line with objective experience to start with the distinction of being and non-being and go from there. Then we only have to discuss objects that have being (they exist), and their properties and possible objects.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                It seems we can. Its quite possible to talk about about the properties of objects that don't exist, but are entirely hypothetical. You could talk about the abstract conception of these objects existing (at least in the realm of mental ideas).

                We can conceive of a blue panther... such a panther doesn't really exist, however we could get Industrial Lights and Magic to do a realistic rendering of how such a blue panther would look like. So we can discuss the properties of an abstract panther, yet here we're clearly talking abstractly about the properties of an object that doesn't exist.

                The reason existence can't be property is that it then becomes really hard to make sense of what it means to say that an object is... do have to image that all objects somehow have being, only with an uncountable infinity of them having their property '.existence.set = false'? Its simpler and in line with objective experience to start with the distinction of being and non-being and go from there. Then we only have to discuss objects that have being (they exist), and their properties and possible objects.
                Well, the blue panther is not independent of existence. It consists in a set of brain states that do exist. The blue panther is a description much like sweet or sour. You might think instead that the blue panther has a super-existence in the space of possible brain states rather than none. The very fact that you can name it is significant. The non-existent thing (nothing) has no name, it doesn’t even have a “the”.

                I was unable to make sense of your last paragraph other than to note that being means the fact of existence so I am not sure why your formulation is any better than mine.
                “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                “not all there” - you know who you are

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Kelp(p) View Post
                  It reminds me of Greek mythology in a way. First there was chaos. And then of course Genesis 1:2 which Robert Alter translates as, "And the world then was welter and waste."
                  But remember that "welter and waste" came after creation. Hmmm?
                  Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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                  • #24
                    To permute the thread title, "Why does YEC have nothing instead of something?"

                    Jorge, JordanRiver, and "Mr." Black might like to have a crack at this.

                    K54

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by klaus54 View Post
                      To permute the thread title, "Why does YEC have nothing instead of something?"

                      Jorge, JordanRiver, and "Mr." Black might like to have a crack at this.

                      K54
                      What?

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                        But remember that "welter and waste" came after creation. Hmmm?
                        Yep.
                        O Gladsome Light of the Holy Glory of the Immortal Father, Heavenly, Holy, Blessed Jesus Christ! Now that we have come to the setting of the sun and behold the light of evening, we praise God Father, Son and Holy Spirit. For meet it is at all times to worship Thee with voices of praise. O Son of God and Giver of Life, therefore all the world doth glorify Thee.

                        A neat video of dead languages!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by klaus54 View Post
                          To permute the thread title, "Why does YEC have nothing instead of something?"

                          Jorge, JordanRiver, and "Mr." Black might like to have a crack at this.

                          K54
                          Wooooow. I don't think I've ever seen such an absurdly one track mind. Congrats, I guess...
                          O Gladsome Light of the Holy Glory of the Immortal Father, Heavenly, Holy, Blessed Jesus Christ! Now that we have come to the setting of the sun and behold the light of evening, we praise God Father, Son and Holy Spirit. For meet it is at all times to worship Thee with voices of praise. O Son of God and Giver of Life, therefore all the world doth glorify Thee.

                          A neat video of dead languages!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Kelp(p) View Post
                            Wooooow. I don't think I've ever seen such an absurdly one track mind. Congrats, I guess...
                            You're welcome!

                            And you're also welcome for missing an obvious point.

                            YEC explains everything and nothing at the same time.

                            No need for those damnable details. Pffffffwt...

                            K54

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