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Why is there something rather then nothing?

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  • Why is there something rather then nothing?

    Source: http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20141106-why-does-anything-exist-at-all



    People have wrestled with the mystery of why the universe exists for thousands of years. Pretty much every ancient culture came up with its own creation story - most of them leaving the matter in the hands of the gods - and philosophers have written reams on the subject. But science has had little to say about this ultimate question.
    However, in recent years a few physicists and cosmologists have started to tackle it. They point out that we now have an understanding of the history of the universe, and of the physical laws that describe how it works. That information, they say, should give us a clue about how and why the cosmos exists.
    Their admittedly controversial answer is that the entire universe, from the fireball of the Big Bang to the star-studded cosmos we now inhabit, popped into existence from nothing at all. It had to happen, they say, because "nothing" is inherently unstable.
    This idea may sound bizarre, or just another fanciful creation story. But the physicists argue that it follows naturally from science's two most powerful and successful theories: quantum mechanics and general relativity.

    Here, then, is how everything could have come from nothing.

    © Copyright Original Source

    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  • #2
    A "roiling cloud of particles and antiparticles" is not absolutely nothing at all. The question is asking why there exists anything instead of absolutely nothing. This and the many similar articles on the subject don't actually answer that question.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by CMD View Post
      A "roiling cloud of particles and antiparticles" is not absolutely nothing at all. The question is asking why there exists anything instead of absolutely nothing. This and the many similar articles on the subject don't actually answer that question.
      True, but if you head over to the philosophy board, you'll see that we've been struggling with the question for a couple of days and it seems like true nothingness in the philosophical sense is an oxymoron.
      O Gladsome Light of the Holy Glory of the Immortal Father, Heavenly, Holy, Blessed Jesus Christ! Now that we have come to the setting of the sun and behold the light of evening, we praise God Father, Son and Holy Spirit. For meet it is at all times to worship Thee with voices of praise. O Son of God and Giver of Life, therefore all the world doth glorify Thee.

      A neat video of dead languages!

      Comment


      • #4
        It reminds me of Greek mythology in a way. First there was chaos. And then of course Genesis 1:2 which Robert Alter translates as, "And the world then was welter and waste."
        O Gladsome Light of the Holy Glory of the Immortal Father, Heavenly, Holy, Blessed Jesus Christ! Now that we have come to the setting of the sun and behold the light of evening, we praise God Father, Son and Holy Spirit. For meet it is at all times to worship Thee with voices of praise. O Son of God and Giver of Life, therefore all the world doth glorify Thee.

        A neat video of dead languages!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Kelp(p) View Post
          True, but if you head over to the philosophy board, you'll see that we've been struggling with the question for a couple of days and it seems like true nothingness in the philosophical sense is an oxymoron.
          It is not really a philosophical question. If the universe did not exist - no space/time, and no sea of particles and antiparticles - would exist. You can play with words all day (or several days) but you can not nail down nothing.
          Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
            It is not really a philosophical question. If the universe did not exist - no space/time, and no sea of particles and antiparticles - would exist. You can play with words all day (or several days) but you can not nail down nothing.
            That's what I meant. Wovon Mann nicht sprechen kann, darueber muss Mann schweigen.
            O Gladsome Light of the Holy Glory of the Immortal Father, Heavenly, Holy, Blessed Jesus Christ! Now that we have come to the setting of the sun and behold the light of evening, we praise God Father, Son and Holy Spirit. For meet it is at all times to worship Thee with voices of praise. O Son of God and Giver of Life, therefore all the world doth glorify Thee.

            A neat video of dead languages!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by CMD View Post
              A "roiling cloud of particles and antiparticles" is not absolutely nothing at all. The question is asking why there exists anything instead of absolutely nothing. This and the many similar articles on the subject don't actually answer that question.
              Its a play on words to illustrate some new aspects of modeling the beginnings of universes.
              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

              go with the flow the river knows . . .

              Frank

              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                Its a play on words to illustrate some new aspects of modeling the beginnings of universes.
                But it has nothing whatsoever to do with nothing.
                Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                  But it has nothing whatsoever to do with nothing.
                  Yeah, I wish Lawrence Krauss, et al. would have picked a different term. I've seen at least one atheist use this to claim that science has disproved the existence of God.
                  O Gladsome Light of the Holy Glory of the Immortal Father, Heavenly, Holy, Blessed Jesus Christ! Now that we have come to the setting of the sun and behold the light of evening, we praise God Father, Son and Holy Spirit. For meet it is at all times to worship Thee with voices of praise. O Son of God and Giver of Life, therefore all the world doth glorify Thee.

                  A neat video of dead languages!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Kelp(p) View Post
                    Yeah, I wish Lawrence Krauss, et al. would have picked a different term. I've seen at least one atheist use this to claim that science has disproved the existence of God.
                    lol on disproving nor proving the existence of a 'Source' some call god(s). 'One atheist?'
                    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                    go with the flow the river knows . . .

                    Frank

                    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I do not care for the word 'nothing' in the scientific context of the nature of the 'Quantum World' without the time and space of universes, but nonetheless this article does explain the contemporary application of Quantum Mechanics to the formation of possible universes. In reality it is nothing new, but it does give a good explanation.

                      Source: http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20141106-why-does-anything-exist-at-all



                      Particles from empty space

                      First we have to take a look at the realm of quantum mechanics. This is the branch of physics that deals with very small things: atoms and even tinier particles. It is an immensely successful theory, and it underpins most modern electronic gadgets. Quantum mechanics tells us that there is no such thing as empty space. Even the most perfect vacuum is actually filled by a roiling cloud of particles and antiparticles, which flare into existence and almost instantaneously fade back into nothingness.
                      These so-called virtual particles don't last long enough to be observed directly, but we know they exist by their effects.

                      Space-time, from no space and no time

                      From tiny things like atoms, to really big things like galaxies. Our best theory for describing such large-scale structures is general relativity, Albert Einstein's crowning achievement, which sets out how space, time and gravity work. Relativity is very different from quantum mechanics, and so far nobody has been able to combine the two seamlessly. However, some theorists have been able to bring the two theories to bear on particular problems by using carefully chosen approximations. For instance, this approach was used by Stephen Hawking at the University of Cambridge to describe black holes.

                      In quantum physics, if something is not forbidden, it necessarily happens

                      One thing they have found is that, when quantum theory is applied to space at the smallest possible scale, space itself becomes unstable. Rather than remaining perfectly smooth and continuous, space and time destabilize, churning and frothing into a foam of space-time bubbles. In other words, little bubbles of space and time can form spontaneously. "If space and time are quantized, they can fluctuate," says Lawrence Krauss at Arizona State University in Tempe. "So you can create virtual space-times just as you can create virtual particles." What's more, if it's possible for these bubbles to form, you can guarantee that they will. "In quantum physics, if something is not forbidden, it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability," says Alexander Vilenkin of Tufts University in Boston, Massachusetts.

                      © Copyright Original Source

                      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                      go with the flow the river knows . . .

                      Frank

                      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                        Here, then, is how everything could have come from nothing.
                        Whew! I’m glad that’s settled. Do you realize that this could be Theologyweb’s last ever thread?
                        Last edited by firstfloor; 11-13-2014, 07:54 AM.
                        “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                        “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                        “not all there” - you know who you are

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                          lol on disproving nor proving the existence of a 'Source' some call god(s). 'One atheist?'
                          Nobody prominent here. I don't even remember who it was specifically.
                          O Gladsome Light of the Holy Glory of the Immortal Father, Heavenly, Holy, Blessed Jesus Christ! Now that we have come to the setting of the sun and behold the light of evening, we praise God Father, Son and Holy Spirit. For meet it is at all times to worship Thee with voices of praise. O Son of God and Giver of Life, therefore all the world doth glorify Thee.

                          A neat video of dead languages!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                            Its a play on words to illustrate some new aspects of modeling the beginnings of universes.
                            I think the problem with ‘nothing’ is that it has no properties at all. It even does not have the property of existence. Therefore the idea “from nothing” is meaningless. That would mean that somethingness would be the simplest possible concept. What physics seems to claim is that, since we exist, the laws governing this simplest condition allows the evolution of a universe like ours.
                            “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                            “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                            “not all there” - you know who you are

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                              I think the problem with ‘nothing’ is that it has no properties at all. It even does not have the property of existence. Therefore the idea “from nothing” is meaningless. That would mean that somethingness would be the simplest possible concept. What physics seems to claim is that, since we exist, the laws governing this simplest condition allows the evolution of a universe like ours.
                              '
                              I agree that the term 'nothing' in science is misleading, but go along with it for convenience. The assumption is not based on 'since we exist,' but based on the current 'Quantum Theory,' especially 'Quantum Gravity,' and how things function without time and space in a Quantum World.
                              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                              go with the flow the river knows . . .

                              Frank

                              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                              Comment

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