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Missing link of abiogenesis revealed

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  • #16
    Originally posted by whag View Post
    Because they're scared of what a revised protology will do to their commitment. You've seen Mr. Black's posts.
    Oy vey, I have.

    K54

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    • #17
      Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
      I believe volcanic vent conditions can occur near the surface, i. e. Iceland.
      Surtsey.

      Just talked about that in freshman geology class last week.

      K54

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
        There were many environments on the earth in it's early history, and where life first formed was not likely exposed to the atmosphere. For example ocean sea vents are a hydrogen rich reducing environment, where prelife components possibly formed. It is unfortunate that the critics did not note this.

        The atmosphere at the time would be obviously toxic to the early life forms and every other possible life form.
        Um, if they aren't exposed to the atmosphere how'd they get exposed to lightning?
        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

        "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

        My Personal Blog

        My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

        Quill Sword

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
          Um, if they aren't exposed to the atmosphere how'd they get exposed to lightning?
          I brought up in a previous post without going into detail. It was a miscue that I referred to specifically deep sea vents in a previous post.

          Ocean vent environments can occur near surface, i. e. Iceland, acknowledged by Klaus who teaches geology. These environments allow for variable transition environments with sea water and the atmosphere, and in reasonable proximity to lightening. The source of consistent heat energy from the sea vent heat would important to early life forms, as they are in a dependent relationship with the life of current deep sea floor vents. The need for a energy source for early prolife and early primitive life forms that cannot produce their own energy is why I support the abiogenesis models that rely on ocean sea vents and related environments.
          Last edited by shunyadragon; 09-23-2014, 01:03 PM.
          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

          go with the flow the river knows . . .

          Frank

          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

          Comment


          • #20
            Um, if it's close enough to the surface to be vulnerable to lightning, wouldn't the chemistry also be different?
            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

            My Personal Blog

            My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

            Quill Sword

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
              Um, if they aren't exposed to the atmosphere how'd they get exposed to lightning?
              WHO created the atmosphere and lightning?

              WHO created the singularity or a fortiori, the Greater Cosmos?

              WHO created the regularities of nature?

              Hmm...

              K54

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                Um, if it's close enough to the surface to be vulnerable to lightning, wouldn't the chemistry also be different?
                The chemistry of the water/gas coming from the vents themselves would not be different, but unlike the deep sea vents there would be more intermediate environments and temperatures with the sea water and the atmosphere.

                I could dig out my old geochemistry texts and go into this in more detail, but it gets involved.
                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                Frank

                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by klaus54 View Post
                  WHO created the atmosphere and lightning?

                  WHO created the singularity or a fortiori, the Greater Cosmos?

                  WHO created the regularities of nature?

                  Hmm...

                  K54

                  God - which doesn't answer my question about how something not exposed to the atmosphere could be exposed to lightning. I think Shuny's explanation needs help but it's at least reasonable so I let it stand. By the way - what's so hard for you about playing nice? Is being unnecessarily nasty somehow proving something to yourself?
                  "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                  "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                  My Personal Blog

                  My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                  Quill Sword

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                    The chemistry of the water/gas coming from the vents themselves would not be different, but unlike the deep sea vents there would be more intermediate environments and temperatures with the sea water and the atmosphere.

                    I could dig out my old geochemistry texts and go into this in more detail, but it gets involved.
                    That's okay - it answered my question.

                    So, can they show that the model used actually (probably) existed?
                    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                    My Personal Blog

                    My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                    Quill Sword

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                      God - which doesn't answer my question about how something not exposed to the atmosphere could be exposed to lightning. I think Shuny's explanation needs help but it's at least reasonable so I let it stand. By the way - what's so hard for you about playing nice? Is being unnecessarily nasty somehow proving something to yourself?
                      Why not?

                      Are you limiting God's abilities??

                      Confused...

                      K4

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        God isn't limited by your inability to answer simple questions. Pity, really.
                        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                        "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                        My Personal Blog

                        My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                        Quill Sword

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                          God isn't limited by your inability to answer simple questions. Pity, really.
                          I'm not limiting God at all.

                          Are you?

                          K54

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Oh, you're just a troll. My mistake.
                            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                            My Personal Blog

                            My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                            Quill Sword

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                              Oh, you're just a troll. My mistake.
                              ???

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                                That's okay - it answered my question.

                                So, can they show that the model used actually (probably) existed?
                                I may provide more on this, but at present I consider the chemical scenario a possible one given the conditions of shallow thermal vents associated with mid-ocean spreading zones like those around Iceland. I may cite more on the geochemical properties in the published article and what is known to occur around the Sea vents.
                                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                                Frank

                                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                                Comment

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