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  • #16
    Originally posted by Jorge View Post
    Try letting go of your rabid prejudice (against me) and become informed, okay?

    Yes, eye-witness testimony MAY be unreliable - but that is true of most other types of evidence. For example, if the eye-witness was drunk at the time or has a history of perjury or has poor eyesight and wasn't wearing glasses at the time ... then his/her testimony may be 'questionable'. But under 'proper' circumstances one solid eye-witness will trump any other type of evidence.

    BTW, there was an Eye-Witness at the creation - His name is God. He is infinitely reliable and trustworthy. Yet people dismiss His account - recorded in Scripture - so as to uphold their own theories and imaginations. That's just one of the reasons why there's a Hell.

    Jorge
    Nope. Eyewitness testimony is unreliable. Under all circumstances. Period. Full stop. 30.

    Juries tend to believe eyewitness accounts, so lawyers love them. Lawyers aren't looking for truth, they are looking to win. My statement stands supported by loads of evidence available on request; when you are looking for truth eyewitnesses are way below several other forms.

    Again you make your ignorance of the subject obvious. And you obviously didn't bother to read the link.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Jorge View Post
      But under 'proper' circumstances one solid eye-witness will trump any other type of evidence.
      In the US court system, DNA evidence has repeatedly trumped eyewitness testimony.
      "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
        In the US court system, DNA evidence has repeatedly trumped eyewitness testimony.
        Yes, and more. Scientists started investigating the reliability of eyewitness testimony in the 1970s but their results didn't have much effect on the legal system until DNA evidence came into wide use in the 1990s. Now we know that eyewitness misidentification is by far *the* major cause of erroneous guilty verdicts.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by klaus54 View Post
          The God as "Eye Witness" at Creation argument is puerile, circular propaganda.

          Even if you consider inspiration to men writing the creation stories "eye witness", you still have the HUGE issue of the PURPOSE of the creation stories.

          ASSUMING that the stories are supposed to give a view of creation that is accurate in terms of what can be observed and then using that assumption to dismiss science is clear-as-a-bell petito principii.

          Were the creation stories meant to convey a scientific method concordant with knowledge of the Cosmos throughout all of human history and culture? Or was the language accommodated to knowledge of the ANE, or was it simply phenomenological, or ...

          If you want them to be concordant with CLEAR observations of CREATION ITSELF you CANNOT put your brain on a shelf and IGNORE the volumes of CONSILIENT data which contradict (wildly!!!) the Jorgian YEC interpretation. And that's EXACTLY what your Genesis reading is -- an INTERPRETATION.

          If you want BOTH a scientific and a theological notion of creation to be non-contradictory you have to look at both "books" of creation -- scripture and nature (creation itself!) The latter is studied by scientific method, and the conclusions blow YEC out of the water.

          Stop mocking God with your YEC foolishness that makes a mockery of religious belief, get over your cult-like adherence to stories that are OBVIOUSLY not literal in the modern sense, and get over you silly misapplication of the "Though He slay me, yet I will trust Him" martyr syndrome.

          K54

          P.S. Boys and girls -- note the reference to Hell in the context of Jorge's Genesis interpretation.

          Jor makes it clear he views YEC as a salvific issue, or at least an instance of heresy.
          I would really appreciate it if you wouldn't present my position in any way. First, you don't know it. Second, you don't understand it. Third, even if you did, you are a distortion and misrepresentation artist. Fourth, you have an anti-biblical agenda. Fifth, your integrity is at the same level as that of a toilet seat. Sixth, you seek to promote your own 'truths', not those of God. Seventh, you are several bricks short of a full wall. Eighth, ... whew, I'm all tuckered out so I'll stop here!

          Jorge

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by JonF View Post
            Nope. Eyewitness testimony is unreliable. Under all circumstances. Period. Full stop. 30.

            Juries tend to believe eyewitness accounts, so lawyers love them. Lawyers aren't looking for truth, they are looking to win. My statement stands supported by loads of evidence available on request; when you are looking for truth eyewitnesses are way below several other forms.

            Again you make your ignorance of the subject obvious. And you obviously didn't bother to read the link.
            You opt to remain ignorant in everything else so why not here also.

            Go along, little birdie, go along.

            Jorge

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Jorge View Post
              You opt to remain ignorant in everything else so why not here also.

              Go along, little birdie, go along.

              Jorge
              TheLurch has already presented the coup de grace:

              "In the US court system, DNA evidence has repeatedly trumped eyewitness testimony."--TheLurch

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Jorge View Post
                You opt to remain ignorant in everything else so why not here also.

                Go along, little birdie, go along.

                Jorge
                Always a pleasure having an evidence-based discussion with you.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Method View Post
                  TheLurch has already presented the coup de grace:

                  "In the US court system, DNA evidence has repeatedly trumped eyewitness testimony."--TheLurch
                  One day - not today - I will figure out what the devil is wrong with you people.

                  You are so rabidly obsessed with proving me "wrong" that you don't even stop to consider
                  if what you're pushing has anything to do with what my actual position is (or isn't).

                  Go suck a lemon.

                  Jorge

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by JonF View Post
                    Always a pleasure having an evidence-based discussion with you.
                    Yeah ... same here ... now shoo ... shoo!!!

                    Jorge

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Jorge View Post
                      I would really appreciate it if you wouldn't present my position in any way. First, you don't know it. Second, you don't understand it. Third, even if you did, you are a distortion and misrepresentation artist. Fourth, you have an anti-biblical agenda. Fifth, your integrity is at the same level as that of a toilet seat. Sixth, you seek to promote your own 'truths', not those of God. Seventh, you are several bricks short of a full wall. Eighth, ... whew, I'm all tuckered out so I'll stop here!

                      Jorge
                      As usual, my comments were accurate and insightful.

                      As usual, your rejoinders were inaccurate and incite-full.

                      You brought up "Hell" in the origins context.

                      Au contraire, your position is as clear as a polished Newtonian mirror.

                      And if anyone's distorting Scripture, it's you and your Know-Nothing YEC posse.

                      Jorgian YEC "Bible God" (to use the JordanianRiver nomenclature) interpretation is diametrically opposed to what's evident from Creation itself.

                      So, how's 'bout YOU stop distorting Scripture?

                      And to turn things round --- repeat your "I would really appreciate it if you wouldn't present my position in any way. First, you don't know it. Second, you don't understand it. Third, even if you did, you are a distortion and misrepresentation artist. " whilst staring into a mirror.

                      K54

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by JonF
                        Always a pleasure having an evidence-based discussion with you.
                        Originally posted by Jorge View Post
                        Yeah ... same here ... now shoo ... shoo!!!

                        Jorge
                        We ARE having an evidence-based discussion with Jorge -- but it's likely not the kind of evidence he wants us to learn.

                        K54

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Jorge reminds me of the Jehovah's Witnesses -- both waste an inordinate amount of time finding different ways to say the same things over and over and over again.
                          "When the Western world accepted Christianity, Caesar conquered; and the received text of Western theology was edited by his lawyers…. The brief Galilean vision of humility flickered throughout the ages, uncertainly…. But the deeper idolatry, of the fashioning of God in the image of the Egyptian, Persian, and Roman imperial rulers, was retained. The Church gave unto God the attributes which belonged exclusively to Caesar."

                          — Alfred North Whitehead

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