Announcement

Collapse

Natural Science 301 Guidelines

This is an open forum area for all members for discussions on all issues of science and origins. This area will and does get volatile at times, but we ask that it be kept to a dull roar, and moderators will intervene to keep the peace if necessary. This means obvious trolling and flaming that becomes a problem will be dealt with, and you might find yourself in the doghouse.

As usual, Tweb rules apply. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

Drive for bold Trekkies

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Drive for bold Trekkies

    Now three groups have claimed to obtain measurable thrust from Roger Shawyer's emdrive

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EmDrive

    I have no idea whether that works or not, but NASA claims to be have been very careful investigating possible explanations.

    To the unexplored stars!
    The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

    [T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

  • #2
    Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
    ...
    To the unexplored stars!
    I think I'm finally catching on to your sense of humor.

    Just add "Physics be damned!" to complete the witticism.



    K54

    Comment


    • #3
      Well, no. I wanted something different from, "To boldly go where no one has gone before." I guess I need to do better.
      The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

      [T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
        Well, no. I wanted something different from, "To boldly go where no one has gone before." I guess I need to do better.
        Fair enough.

        Now just explain to us how the EmDrive can violate the laws of energy.

        Dilithium crystals?

        My conjecture is that DL crystals were discovered in the late '60s but the Trilateral Commission and the War Department created the Star Trek series as a cover-up.

        Big Oil was in on it too.

        K54

        Comment


        • #5
          Star Trek actually uses a type of fusion drive or antimatter/matter drive.
          "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
          GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

          Comment


          • #6
            Source: http://nextbigfuture.com/2014/09/nasa-cannae-drive-and-emdrive.html



            Eagleworks tested one tapered (frustum) cavity, aka Shawyer's EmDrive; and two Cannae drives which are also asymmetric but different resonant cavities. The Cannae drive is said to work on a purported different principle than the EmDrive, according to its inventor Guido Fetta (a net Lorentz force imbalance of electrons upon top vs bottom wall of the cavity). According to this purported working principle, one Cannae drive had radial slots on its rim as required by Fetta in order to produce net thrust, and the second Cannae drive didn't have those slits and was intended to be a "null test device". But the Cannae null test article… also produced net thrust (20 to 40 µN of net thrust depending of the forward or backward direction).

            The null device having thrust means that the Cannae drive theory that the slits mattered was not true. However, this is irrelevant as to whether the Cannae drive produces thrust. Another theoretical explanation is needed but the anomalous thrust remains

            We're talking of net thrust because of course the setup was also tested with a null 50 ohm load connected, in order to cancel the effect from the drives and detect any detect any spurious force due to EM coupling with the whole apparatus (which exists, at 9.6 µN) and this "null" spurious force was evidently subtracted from any thrust signal due to the drives then tested on the pendulum.

            © Copyright Original Source

            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

            go with the flow the river knows . . .

            Frank

            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by klaus54 View Post
              Now just explain to us how the EmDrive can violate the laws of energy.
              Who said so? If that is your own understanding . . . nah, you're just guessing.


              Dilithium crystals?
              Maybe you jest.



              My conjecture is that DL crystals were discovered in the late '60s but the Trilateral Commission and the War Department created the Star Trek series as a cover-up.

              Big Oil was in on it too.
              Yeah, you were jesting . . . were you not, about violating conservation of energy?

              You claimed to know "open" thermodynamics. I wonder.
              The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

              [T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                Source: http://nextbigfuture.com/2014/09/nasa-cannae-drive-and-emdrive.html



                Eagleworks tested one tapered (frustum) cavity, aka Shawyer's EmDrive; and two Cannae drives which are also asymmetric but different resonant cavities. The Cannae drive is said to work on a purported different principle than the EmDrive, according to its inventor Guido Fetta (a net Lorentz force imbalance of electrons upon top vs bottom wall of the cavity). According to this purported working principle, one Cannae drive had radial slots on its rim as required by Fetta in order to produce net thrust, and the second Cannae drive didn't have those slits and was intended to be a "null test device". But the Cannae null test article… also produced net thrust (20 to 40 µN of net thrust depending of the forward or backward direction).

                The null device having thrust means that the Cannae drive theory that the slits mattered was not true. However, this is irrelevant as to whether the Cannae drive produces thrust. Another theoretical explanation is needed but the anomalous thrust remains

                We're talking of net thrust because of course the setup was also tested with a null 50 ohm load connected, in order to cancel the effect from the drives and detect any detect any spurious force due to EM coupling with the whole apparatus (which exists, at 9.6 µN) and this "null" spurious force was evidently subtracted from any thrust signal due to the drives then tested on the pendulum.

                © Copyright Original Source

                Interesting, but I don't know enough to venture any other comment.
                The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

                [T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
                  Who said so? If that is your own understanding . . . nah, you're just guessing.


                  Maybe you jest.



                  Yeah, you were jesting . . . were you not, about violating conservation of energy?

                  You claimed to know "open" thermodynamics. I wonder.
                  Interstellar travel requires energy. A whole bunch. What cavity is EM drive going to pull that out of?

                  K54

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                    Star Trek actually uses a type of fusion drive or antimatter/matter drive.
                    So what's dilithium for?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
                      Now three groups have claimed to obtain measurable thrust from Roger Shawyer's emdrive

                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EmDrive

                      I have no idea whether that works or not, but NASA claims to be have been very careful investigating possible explanations.

                      To the unexplored stars!
                      I don't know if this "emdrive" is for real or just a high-tech prank. What I do know is that this nonsensical story about traveling to other stars and extra-solar planets is a bunch of bull with two primary purposes: first, to justify the continued extraction of our hard-earned money; second, to promote the reigning Materialistic paradigm.

                      In the past I've had a thread where my thesis was, in a nutshell: travel to other stars and extra-solar planets will not ever happen unless something straight out of (today's) science fiction enters the picture. I qualify with "today's" because what would have been regarded as science fiction 100 years ago is commonplace today (e.g., a Cray supercomputer). But the qualification is important because today it is science fiction, not demonstrable science.

                      The crooks perpetrating these crimes use the naivete, gullibility, too-much-Star-Trek, wishful non-thinking and overall ignorance of the general public to promote their myths and accomplish their goals. I mean, who wouldn't want to be on a starship to a distant star and have a nice chat over tea with a Vulcan, right?

                      Dream on, silly children ... dream on!

                      Jorge

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Is it just me, or is anyone else rooting for Zefram Cochrane to weigh in on the issue?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I am holding out for the Infinite Improbability Drive.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I would also like to propose a new concept that I call Sparko's Heisenberg Teleportation Drive. Since the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle says you cannot know the speed and location of an object at the same time (in simplistic terms), then what I propose is to

                            1. Measure the exact speed of something.
                            2. Then look for it everywhere except where you want it to be. Since you can't know it's location, you will be unable to find it and it will appear in the exact location you did not look for it.


                            (I got the idea when I lost my glasses and they were nowhere to be found, then they suddenly appeared on top of my head when I wasn't looking for them any more)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Jorge View Post
                              I don't know if this "emdrive" is for real or just a high-tech prank. What I do know is that this nonsensical story about traveling to other stars and extra-solar planets is a bunch of bull with two primary purposes: first, to justify the continued extraction of our hard-earned money; second, to promote the reigning Materialistic paradigm.

                              In the past I've had a thread where my thesis was, in a nutshell: travel to other stars and extra-solar planets will not ever happen unless something straight out of (today's) science fiction enters the picture. I qualify with "today's" because what would have been regarded as science fiction 100 years ago is commonplace today (e.g., a Cray supercomputer). But the qualification is important because today it is science fiction, not demonstrable science.

                              The crooks perpetrating these crimes use the naivete, gullibility, too-much-Star-Trek, wishful non-thinking and overall ignorance of the general public to promote their myths and accomplish their goals. I mean, who wouldn't want to be on a starship to a distant star and have a nice chat over tea with a Vulcan, right?

                              Dream on, silly children ... dream on!

                              Jorge
                              Note the appeals to ...........................
                              Zefram Cochrane's "Warp Drive" ... "Infinite Improbability Drive" ...
                              Sparko's "Heisenberg Teleportation Drive". I rest my case.

                              Anything scientifically demonstrable cannot/will not get us there.

                              Jorge

                              Comment

                              Related Threads

                              Collapse

                              Topics Statistics Last Post
                              Started by TheLurch, 04-13-2021, 02:25 PM
                              7 responses
                              45 views
                              1 like
                              Last Post TheLurch  
                              Started by rogue06, 04-13-2021, 08:52 AM
                              1 response
                              34 views
                              1 like
                              Last Post shunyadragon  
                              Started by shunyadragon, 04-11-2021, 06:59 AM
                              0 responses
                              15 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post shunyadragon  
                              Started by Sparko, 04-09-2021, 07:35 AM
                              4 responses
                              23 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post Sparko
                              by Sparko
                               
                              Started by rogue06, 04-05-2021, 08:45 AM
                              9 responses
                              61 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post rogue06
                              by rogue06
                               
                              Working...
                              X