Originally posted by Method
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Holding their feet to the fire ...
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Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View PostI think Leonhard is wrong on this matter, but I have never seen him be dishonest. In fact, he's often very reasonable, even if we don't agree at the end of an exchange. That's the whole reason I've been responding to him in this thread, despite wanting to drop the issue earlier.
"Truth, to the dishonest, is more "grating" than fingernails across a chalkboard."
Jorge
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Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View PostI'm sure the irony of Jorge cowardly trying to get EXPELLED! all those who present science which rebuts his YEC idiocy isn't lost on anyone.
If I hadn't then consider your OFF as of this moment.
Begone, Beagle Boy demon!!!
Jorge
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Originally posted by seer View PostSo those are not natural? I was told that we do not get our morality from nature.
One interesting experiment, repeated many times, is where two players start the game with one player holding all the goodies, and can divide the goodies up with the other player however he sees fit. The player who starts out with nothing has the option of either accepting or rejecting the distribution. If he rejects it, neither player gets anything at all.
Other species able to understand this simple game, such as chimps and gorillas, play it according to straight game theory -- that is, the player who starts out with nothing only rejects a distribution if he gets nothing. If he gets anything, however little, he accepts it because something is better than nothing.
But humans are very different. On average, the player who starts with nothing will reject anything less than about 40% of the goodies (for people, this is money. For chimps, it's food). That is, humans would rather get nothing, than what they regard as an "unfair" distribution. If they feel the distribution is unfair, they consider it worthwhile to lose everything provided the greedy immoral player also gets nothing.
And of course, this response is exactly what has been required over evolutionary time for hominin tribes to survive. As Benjamin Franklin said, if we don't hang together, we will surely all hang separately. So we get our morality from evolution, from trial and error when errors are fatal, and survivors are moral. Morality is species-specific.
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Originally posted by phank View PostAnd of course, this response is exactly what has been required over evolutionary time for hominin tribes to survive. As Benjamin Franklin said, if we don't hang together, we will surely all hang separately. So we get our morality from evolution, from trial and error when errors are fatal, and survivors are moral. Morality is species-specific.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by phank View PostThe irony in fact WAS lost on at least one person, it seems.
There's no scientific fact too small for him to run from, no slime too disgusting for him to crawl into to avoid the scientifically knowledgeable.
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Originally posted by seer View PostSo those are not natural? I was told that we do not get our morality from nature.
What we have is the ability to detect pain in others, and the reasoning ability to infer what caused that pain. From that, we choose which actions to take to minimize the pain in others and to benefit the society we belong to.
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Originally posted by Method View PostEmpathy and reason are not derived from descriptions of nature. What evolution provided was the ability to use reason and empathy as much as evolution provided us the ability to do math or physics.
What we have is the ability to detect pain in others, and the reasoning ability to infer what caused that pain. From that, we choose which actions to take to minimize the pain in others and to benefit the society we belong to.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Jorge View PostNot that I've ever seen. Nor have any examples [of evolution being used to justify abortion] ever been povided here.
Stated, but not demonstrated. Thus there's no reason to accept the truth of the above claim.
Below is a thought found in AiG ... there is a ton more from multiple sources:
RoyJorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by Jorge View PostAs I stated, there are tons and TONS of support dating back decades if you will simply LOOK with an open and honest mind.
RoyJorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by seer View PostSo those are not natural? I was told that we do not get our morality from nature.
RoyJorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by Method View PostEmpathy and reason are not derived from descriptions of nature. What evolution provided was the ability to use reason and empathy as much as evolution provided us the ability to do math or physics.
What we have is the ability to detect pain in others, and the reasoning ability to infer what caused that pain. From that, we choose which actions to take to minimize the pain in others and to benefit the society we belong to.
It's no wonder that human gods have mostly been like ordinary people except with extra abilities and control over weather and such. But even today, we attempt to influence our gods emotionally with sacrifices, threats (of disbelief), and bribes. And that's also cross-cultural. Our gods are designed to embody the morality and human nature that evolved with our species.
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Good point. I'm a little out of it today.
@ Leonhard, I've actually finished a response(can't believe I got the whole thing done today), but I'm waiting on a response from some of the other mods about where it should go. I don't want to debate at this point, but I felt you deserved a response, and a chance to respond. It's too big for one post, so expect a rather long read compared to normal TWeb threads.
ETA: Oops, that was supposed to include Jorge's response to me earlier.
Yes, it's a good point that truth is grating on those who are dishonest. I did a bit more "work"(I don't consider responding to people here to be real work, but what I did today was a doozy for me) than I've done in a long time.Last edited by Cerebrum123; 09-03-2014, 04:46 PM.
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Originally posted by Roy View PostBut you still can't provide one example.
Roy
And it would indeed be a WASTE of my time 'coz only God Almighty Himself could
ever get you to admit your error / change your stance -- certainly no "example"
that I could post here would achieve that goal.
What planet was that again - you know, the one you've been on for the past 40 years or so?
Jorge
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