Announcement

Collapse

Natural Science 301 Guidelines

This is an open forum area for all members for discussions on all issues of science and origins. This area will and does get volatile at times, but we ask that it be kept to a dull roar, and moderators will intervene to keep the peace if necessary. This means obvious trolling and flaming that becomes a problem will be dealt with, and you might find yourself in the doghouse.

As usual, Tweb rules apply. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

Warming: Where Is The Harm?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Warming: Where Is The Harm?

    Ok, from what I can understand from the grafts linked, from the late 1880s to present the earth's average temperature has increased about one degree f. http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs_v3/

    This has seemed to have topped off in the late 90s. And we remain fairly stable, but we are stable at a much warmer temperature. So has that warmer temperature really cause any empirical harm? From what I have read we just went through three years of the mildest hurricane seasons in recent memory. I mean what weather events can we point to that are worse now in either duration, frequency or intensity because of this warming?
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

  • #2
    Tell that to the Eskimos, whose pies keep melting!!!

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
      Tell that to the Eskimos, whose pies keep melting!!!
      Like those polar bears that keep melting!
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by seer View Post
        Ok, from what I can understand from the grafts linked, from the late 1880s to present the earth's average temperature has increased about one degree f. http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs_v3/

        This has seemed to have topped off in the late 90s. And we remain fairly stable, but we are stable at a much warmer temperature. So has that warmer temperature really cause any empirical harm? From what I have read we just went through three years of the mildest hurricane seasons in recent memory. I mean what weather events can we point to that are worse now in either duration, frequency or intensity because of this warming?
        Seriously?

        In the US alone changing wind patterns produced the Polar Vortex that did damage by dumping extra cold arctic air over the east coast and Midwest and cost the US economy an estimated $5 billion. Meanwhile the western states are still suffering through their worst drought in a century, causing significant damage to crops and an increase in food prices. In Alaska the melting permafrost has caused hundreds of millions of dollars' damage to infrastructure - roads, bridges, water and electricity distribution. Coastal sea trade cities on both coasts are having to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to shore up their port infrastructure too against rising sea level effects. That doesn't even include the severe cost of the loss of biodiversity through loss of animal and plant habitats.

        That's just in the US. The same effects over the whole globe are estimated to cost approx. $1.2 trillion dollars a year in damages.

        Climate change is already damaging global economy, report finds

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View Post
          Seriously?

          In the US alone changing wind patterns produced the Polar Vortex that did damage by dumping extra cold arctic air over the east coast and Midwest and cost the US economy an estimated $5 billion. Meanwhile the western states are still suffering through their worst drought in a century, causing significant damage to crops and an increase in food prices. In Alaska the melting permafrost has caused hundreds of millions of dollars' damage to infrastructure - roads, bridges, water and electricity distribution. Coastal sea trade cities on both coasts are having to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to shore up their port infrastructure too against rising sea level effects. That doesn't even include the severe cost of the loss of biodiversity through loss of animal and plant habitats.

          That's just in the US. The same effects over the whole globe are estimated to cost approx. $1.2 trillion dollars a year in damages.

          Climate change is already damaging global economy, report finds
          Really Beagle? So this drought is worse than the 1930's dust bowl? Some of the coldest US winters were in the 60 and 80s. Was the 1936 North American cold wave cause by global warming? And wouldn't a warmer planet eventually produce more growing areas and longer growing seasons? After all the earth was once much warmer than today and animals and plants thrived. As far as coastal areas, that is mostly our fault for building to close to the shore in the first place - I knew that when I was a kid in the 60s and saw what hurricanes did to our coastal towns. And since those days we have only built up those areas more.
          Last edited by seer; 07-01-2014, 11:23 AM.
          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by seer View Post
            Really Beagle?
            Yes seer, really. Reality doesn't go away just because you don't particularly care for it.

            And wouldn't a warmer planet eventually produce more growing areas and longer growing seasons?
            Productive growing areas may move northward into Nebraska / Montana / Canada but this will be offset by crop losses in the traditional breadbasket states. There's also the problem of moving billions of dollars' worth of food growing / food processing / transportation infrastructure from the drought areas to the new growing areas. Little details like that you probably never consider.

            After all the earth was once much warmer than today and animals and plants thrived.
            Animal and plant life will survive. However the Earth never had 7+ billion people on it to support before so that population will likely fall drastically. You'll be gone by that time so why should you care if a few billion people starve to death, right?

            Comment


            • #7
              Was the 1936 North American cold wave cause by global warming?
              Probably. Climate conditions over millenia show gradual average warming. No-one has been able to walk across the Thames River in mid winter since some time in the 1700s, for example, though it was a regular activity prior to that. well - except for only an extreme few exceptional winters.
              And wouldn't a warmer planet eventually produce more growing areas and longer growing seasons?
              No. Warmer planet means loss of low lying plains, increased erosion and, because the increased temperatures result in an increased capacity for air to retain moisture, decreased rainfall.
              After all the earth was once much warmer than today and animals and plants thrived.
              Increased expanses of desert in once fertile lands show that this is not so. Egypt and Ethiopia both had very good agricultural capacity 2000 - 3000 years ago.

              As to man made global warming - that has ACCELERATED the pace without doubt, and that rate of acceleration is probably itself accelerating. The current hiatus in rising temperatures was predicted early in the piece (1960s - 1970s?).
              Basic scenario goes that Polar ice melts - dumps inordinate quantities of very cold water into the oceans, that very cold water is carried to equatorial regions by currents. Temporary cooling of the deeper ocean results in a stay in increased temperatures. Cooling effects result in a partial recovery of ice caps. The cold water eventually gets warmer, increases the melt of the polar caps (which never recovered fully from the prior melt) and continue the cycle.
              To give a thoroughly over-simplified example: Temperatures increase, melt 100 tons of polar ice. ice water creates hiatus, polar ice increases by 50 tons. ice water warms up - melting of ice caps resumes, melts 100 tons of ice. after a few repetitions, no ice is left.
              sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by seer View Post
                Really Beagle? So this drought is worse than the 1930's dust bowl? Some of the coldest US winters were in the 60 and 80s. Was the 1936 North American cold wave cause by global warming? And wouldn't a warmer planet eventually produce more growing areas and longer growing seasons? After all the earth was once much warmer than today and animals and plants thrived. As far as coastal areas, that is mostly our fault for building to close to the shore in the first place - I knew that when I was a kid in the 60s and saw what hurricanes did to our coastal towns. And since those days we have only built up those areas more.
                doncha know? We never had bad weather till global warming, er I mean "climate change" came along! Earth was a paradise. Not too much rain, not too much sun. No floods, or earthquakes or hurricanes, or blizzards or tornadoes. Why, I bet until last year, Venice was on dry land in the middle of a tropical island.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View Post
                  Yes seer, really. Reality doesn't go away just because you don't particularly care for it.
                  I will ask again: So this drought is worse than the 1930's dust bowl? Some of the coldest US winters were in the 60 and 80s. Was the 1936 North American cold wave cause by global warming?


                  Productive growing areas may move northward into Nebraska / Montana / Canada but this will be offset by crop losses in the traditional breadbasket states. There's also the problem of moving billions of dollars' worth of food growing / food processing / transportation infrastructure from the drought areas to the new growing areas. Little details like that you probably never consider.
                  Why? Why would we lose our "traditional breadbasket?" You haven't shown that GW has caused more droughts, perhaps our traditional breadbasket will have longer, better growing seasons.


                  Animal and plant life will survive. However the Earth never had 7+ billion people on it to support before so that population will likely fall drastically. You'll be gone by that time so why should you care if a few billion people starve to death, right?
                  Well first, I very much doubt that we can reverse anything at this point especially when countries like China and India are bringing new coal plants on line weekly. Second, longer growing seasons and more growing areas will help feed this growing population. And that would be a good thing.
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by seer View Post
                    Second, longer growing seasons and more growing areas will help feed this growing population. And that would be a good thing.
                    Where are your liberal sensibilities, Seer? That would be a BAD thing. Because then the planet could support more people and they would just ruin the planet faster. We need to eliminate the human race to save the planet!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                      No. Warmer planet means loss of low lying plains, increased erosion and, because the increased temperatures result in an increased capacity for air to retain moisture, decreased rainfall.
                      This does not make sense. When the earth was much warmer wasn't it also more lush? More tropical? Was there less rainfall back then, with more deserts? If I remember the Arctic once once very warm with lots of vegetation and life.
                      Last edited by seer; 07-01-2014, 12:11 PM.
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        Where are your liberal sensibilities, Seer? That would be a BAD thing. Because then the planet could support more people and they would just ruin the planet faster. We need to eliminate the human race to save the planet!
                        Hehe...
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by seer View Post
                          I will ask again: So this drought is worse than the 1930's dust bowl? Some of the coldest US winters were in the 60 and 80s. Was the 1936 North American cold wave cause by global warming?

                          Why? Why would we lose our "traditional breadbasket?" You haven't shown that GW has caused more droughts, perhaps our traditional breadbasket will have longer, better growing seasons.

                          Well first, I very much doubt that we can reverse anything at this point especially when countries like China and India are bringing new coal plants on line weekly. Second, longer growing seasons and more growing areas will help feed this growing population. And that would be a good thing.
                          Dealing with you is hopeless. We've had , what, at least half a dozen threads on AGW here and on the old TWeb? We've looked at dozens if not hundreds of scientific papers describing the physical effects, the monetary costs, the damage caused but you ignored every one. I could go to the time and trouble of posting dozens more but you'd just ignore them too. So stay in your fantasy world of pretty butterflies and fuzzy kittens. The rest of us who have to deal with reality will continue to work the problems the best we can despite the dead-weight of the willfully ignorant folks like you.
                          Last edited by HMS_Beagle; 07-01-2014, 12:20 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View Post
                            Dealing with you is hopeless. We've had , what, at least half a dozen threads on AGW here and on the old TWeb? We've looked at dozens if not hundreds of of scientific papers describing the physical effects, the monetary costs, the damage caused but you ignored every one. I could go to the time and trouble of posting dozens more but you'd just ignore them too. So stay in your fantasy world of pretty butterflies and fuzzy kittens. The rest of us who have to deal with reality will continue to work the problems the best we can despite the dead-weight of the willfully ignorant folks like you.
                            Translation: "I got nothing so I will insult you and run away "

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View Post
                              Dealing with you is hopeless. We've had , what, at least half a dozen threads on AGW here and on the old TWeb? We've looked at dozens if not hundreds of of scientific papers describing the physical effects, the monetary costs, the damage caused but you ignored every one. I could go to the time and trouble of posting dozens more but you'd just ignore them too. So stay in your fantasy world of pretty butterflies and fuzzy kittens. The rest of us who have to deal with reality will continue to work the problems the best we can despite the dead-weight of the willfully ignorant folks like you.
                              But you claimed that the drought in California was caused by global warming, you gave that as an example:

                              But in doing so, they were pushing at the boundaries of scientific knowledge about the relationship between climate change and drought. While a trend of increasing drought that may be linked to global warming has been documented in some regions, including parts of the Mediterranean and in the Southwestern United States, there is no scientific consensus yet that it is a worldwide phenomenon. Nor is there definitive evidence that it is causing California’s problems.

                              In fact, the most recent computer projections suggest that as the world warms, California should get wetter, not drier, in the winter, when the state gets the bulk of its precipitation. That has prompted some of the leading experts to suggest that climate change most likely had little role in causing the drought.


                              “I’m pretty sure the severity of this thing is due to natural variability,” said Richard Seager, a climate scientist who studies water issues at the Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory of Columbia University.
                              http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/17/sc...ming.html?_r=0


                              So how can you even begin to calculate monetary costs, when you can not even show that a particular weather event like this drought was actually the result of AGW?
                              Last edited by seer; 07-01-2014, 12:30 PM.
                              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                              Comment

                              Related Threads

                              Collapse

                              Topics Statistics Last Post
                              Started by Juvenal, 11-30-2020, 04:47 PM
                              3 responses
                              40 views
                              1 like
                              Last Post Terraceth  
                              Started by rogue06, 11-28-2020, 12:54 PM
                              4 responses
                              37 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post shunyadragon  
                              Started by shunyadragon, 11-26-2020, 09:46 PM
                              0 responses
                              12 views
                              1 like
                              Last Post shunyadragon  
                              Started by lee_merrill, 11-23-2020, 10:25 PM
                              5 responses
                              52 views
                              1 like
                              Last Post Seeker
                              by Seeker
                               
                              Started by rogue06, 11-22-2020, 08:25 AM
                              5 responses
                              74 views
                              3 likes
                              Last Post rogue06
                              by rogue06
                               
                              Working...
                              X