The Sense Of Smell: How Did It Happen?

[Truthseeker]

Maybe H.M.S. Beagle does not understand what I want, but I doubt he is able to give us a detailed, well-worked-out example that at least plausibly shows how a sense like that of touch can come into existence--NOT just evolve. Something such that we can at least roughly estimate its probability of coming into existence. Or perhaps the ability to detect the presence of a simple chemical like oxygen molecules (O2) would be easier.

I am wondering if I should take Jorge's advice. No more trying to teach the pig to sing.

[HMS_Beagle]

Maybe H.M.S. Beagle does not understand what I want.

I understand you want to be a childish troll. Wasn't that hard to figure out, really. Maybe you should ask El Pollo, he claims to know all there is to know about evolution.

[seer]

We're talking about the evolution of the whole olfactory sensing system. Genetic variations are random WRT reproductive fitness but their overall accumulation isn't strictly random.

Repeat that over to yourself until it sinks in.

What are you taking about? First I never said it was all random (the case could be made though) we, I, you and me were speaking of mutations, since mutation are what create novelty (no matter how small) then that novelty could be save by natural selection. That doesn't however get you off the hook. The corresponding mutations in the central nervous system are necessary to be able to process the information from these various receptors. Whether for sight, touch, smell, taste, or sound. Or for the digestive system or respiratory system. All need corresponding changes in the nervous system to accept or process these various inputs. And those changes in the brain happen via random mutations, no matter how they are selected or saved.

[Truthseeker]

Okay, suppose an isolated population of bacteria has no ability to react to concentrations of O2 above a certain level (not necessarily exactly the same for bacterium to bacterium, but close to the level). I doubt a simple series of simple mutations occurring in the population (not the same individual bacterium, but occurring in many members of the population)--let me start over. I don't think the series of mutations would lead to a bacterium that has that ability to react. Rather there has to be frequent occurrences of coincidental mutations. Bacterium A has a mutation that happens to be a part of the reactive system; Bacterium B has another part; later, Bacterium C has yet another part. Somehow, eventually all those mutations combine to create a single bacterium that has the reactive system! How likely is that? I find myself unable to estimate the odds. Maybe we would have to do experiments with several populations of that type to see if we could get the ability to react in any way to the O2 level.

I am not trained to be a biologist; feel free to suggest improvements to the above paragraph.

[HMS_Beagle]

I am not trained to be a biologist; feel free to suggest improvements to the above paragraph.

Send it to AIG or the Disco Toot, they love inane Creationist blithering. Or better yet, print it out and send it to the Charmin company. They'll know its best use.

[firstfloor]

Uhmmm ... so before they had the sense of smell (or the other senses),
did they do without food and run into toxins? But ... but ... that would mean DEATH!
IOW, while "Evolution" produced these senses, they would have died.
Ya know, I don't think I'll buy your fable today ... tomorrow doesn't look any better.
Jorge

Plants do not have a sense of smell. I will leave you to join the dots because you seem to need the mental exercise.

[Jorge]

Plants do not have a sense of smell. I will leave you to join the dots because you seem to need the mental exercise.

Plllllleeeezzzz ... get a hold of yourself.

FYI, plants (at least some of them) do have a sense of smell when "smell" is considered in its
general definition. You're so smart that I'll leave you to just nod your head in agreement.

Jorge

[Jorge]

Yep. As the earliest multi-cellular creatures first evolved the capability of locomotion being able to sense your surrounding environment was a huge advantage. Rudimentary sight, rudimentary smell, rudimentary hearing all gave big benefits. If you could move towards a food source or away from a danger you had a much better chance of surviving. It wasn't necessary for these senses to develop to their present degrees of refinement immediately. Just small incremental increases in performance over time did the trick and the Prince and Princess lived happily ever after. THE END.

You forgot the ending, Beagle Boy - I fixed it for you! No charge.

Jorge

[Jorge]

I am wondering if I should take Jorge's advice. No more trying to teach the pig to sing.

In the end, I am quite sure that you will see the light. By the way, the harder you try to get that little piggy to sing, the more annoyed he becomes thereby increasing the intensity and frequency of his attacks on you. Just wait and see - it's as predictable as the sun's 'rising' from the East.

Jorge

[firstfloor]

Plllllleeeezzzz ... get a hold of yourself.
FYI, plants (at least some of them) do have a sense of smell when "smell" is considered in its
general definition. You're so smart that I'll leave you to just nod your head in agreement.
Jorge

This is progress Jorge. Good work! I didn’t know about that.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/krulwich/20...what-it-smells

[Jorge]

This is progress Jorge. Good work! I didn’t know about that.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/krulwich/20...what-it-smells

Great, learning is a good thing.

Many plants "smell". Years ago, when I first became aware of that fact, I was "blown away".

One of the instances that is truly amazing is that when certain flora are being eaten
they emit a chemical signal (an "odor") that is detected ("smelled") by other plants of the same
species. This triggers for those particular plants to secrete a toxin making themselves
unpalatable for consumption. The animal dining on the plant then goes away - mission complete!

The Evo-Faithful have a very hard time accounting for that unless
they introduce just-so fairy tales.
Edited to add : Which of course they do - BY THE TRUCKLOAD !!!

Jorge

[HMS_Beagle]

Uhmmm ... so before they had the sense of smell (or the other senses),
did they do without food and run into toxins? But ... but ... that would mean DEATH!
IOW, while "Evolution" produced these senses, they would have died.

Ya know, I don't think I'll buy your fable today ... tomorrow doesn't look any better.

Jorge

As usual Jorge demonstrates his pitiful scientific ignorance. Sponges have no sense of smell, in fact they lack any sort of central nervous system to carry sensory inputs. They are sessile filter feeders who rely on water currents carrying nutrients to them. The only "sense" that have at all are specialized cells on their bodies that do respond to tactile stimulation. All that yet they've been around for 600 million years.

Jorge never misses a chance to make himself look like a blustering fool.

[Jorge]

As usual Jorge demonstrates his pitiful scientific ignorance. Sponges have no sense of smell, in fact they lack any sort of central nervous system to carry sensory inputs. They are sessile filter feeders who rely on water currents carrying nutrients to them. The only "sense" that have at all are specialized cells on their bodies that do respond to tactile stimulation. All that yet they've been around for 600 million years.

Jorge never misses a chance to make himself look like a blustering fool.

Yes, I know that I've said this many times before ... so one more won't hurt :

Your ignorance, combined with your rank stupidity, is truly a sight to behold, Beagle Boy.

Jorge

[HMS_Beagle]

Yes, I know that I've said this many times before ... so one more won't hurt :

Your ignorance, combined with your rank stupidity, is truly a sight to behold, Beagle Boy.

Jorge

LOL! Jorge again gets caught in his woeful scientific ignorance, responds the only way he knows how by flinging insults.

Making you look like an idiot is easy Jorge. You do all the heavy lifting for me.

[Jorge]

LOL! Jorge again gets caught in his woeful scientific ignorance, responds the only way he knows how by flinging insults.

Making you look like an idiot is easy Jorge. You do all the heavy lifting for me.

Jorge