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An Evolution thought experiment

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Jorge View Post
    My objections are "silly" only to a shallow-minded person that hasn't thought out the argument sufficiently in scope or depth.

    But do keep trying, Sparko. Maybe in a few years the light bulb will finally turn 'on'.

    Jorge

    You object that it couldn't happen, yet we already make it happen with selective breeding. Is it inconceivable that the same thing could happen with wolves in the wild? It is just breeding, not macro evolution. A wolf who can run slightly faster might survive longer. After a while the slower wolves would die off and only the faster would remain. This could keep going on until some physical barrier was reached (such as your heart thing) that would ultimately limit the speed. Or perhaps after a while the new wolves would have offspring with stronger hearts. Those who were faster with stronger hearts would survive and those who did not would die off. It is just breeding useful traits that help survival.

    Your objections are indeed silly.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Jorge View Post
      Oh my, I guess it's time to sit down and be quiet ... there's a PhD
      that has just entered the discussion...
      Sort of an ironic tactic to take considering how you went out and purchased a PhD.

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by klaus54 View Post
        FFY.

        I'm SURE you've been told and are aware of how biological evolution can be falsified. YEC is also falsifiable and has in fact BEEN falsified for over two hundred years.

        Apparently the key to YEC "debating" and snowing the scientifically ignorant churchgoers is to use the Fallacy of Projection willing, unabashedly, and without limit.

        K54
        Klaus if you are just here to Jorge bash and flame, then please leave the thread. It is tedious to read your posts.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by klaus54 View Post
          Wake up, Coward! Dozing off is not effective in dodging reality.

          Projecting and running is what Jorges do best!

          K54
          Stop it!

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Jorge View Post
            Oh my, I guess it's time to sit down and be quiet ... there's a PhD
            that has just entered the discussion and he knows, he REALLY knows,
            about this stuff - why Evolution is right and "stupid Biblical Creationists
            like Jorge" are wrong. Yup, end of the discussion ... everyone go home.

            In fact, he just tossed out one mighty piece of evidence. Here it is again:
            "After all these years Jorge still has a grade school understanding of it."

            There - are you convinced? If not, then you must be ignorant, stupid or wicked.

            It's the age-old crapacola: "If you don't embrace Evolution, then you don't understand it."



            Yeah, rrrrrrrright!

            There is nothing about the Evolutionary paradigm and 'thinking' process that you can tell me that I haven't heard/studied a hundred times before, sfs1, so return to your classroom where your students stand in awe of your "superior intellect and knowledge". Rest assured, I'm not one of your awe-struck students.

            Jorge
            Hypocrisy multiplied by a Gogol.

            A major YEC strategy is to trot out Ph.D.s as putative experts on every aspect of science whether or not they have knowledge in that area. E.g., Sofarti is a physical chemist but somehow becomes an expert on SNRs.

            So the first axiom of YEC charlatanism is the Fallacy of Projection, and the second is blatant Hypocrisy.

            Wanna try for a third, Coward?

            K54

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              Stop it!
              Stop what? The coward business? How else would you describe the unnamed-one's behavior?

              K%4

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                Klaus if you are just here to Jorge bash and flame, then please leave the thread. It is tedious to read your posts.
                I'm not "bashing Jorge" -- I'm pointing out the flaw in his logic in like kind.

                If you don't want to hear the truth on TWeb, then feel free to ban me.

                K54

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by klaus54 View Post
                  FFY.

                  I'm SURE you've been told and are aware of how biological evolution can be falsified.

                  K54
                  I know that you are slower than molasses at the North Pole but just to humor myself:

                  Once we were told (have you read ol' Charlie's book?) that the fossil record would show innumerable examples of "species slowly changing as new features, species and phyla" emerged. To NOT find this would be a sort of 'falsification' since the opposite of the prediction was observed.

                  Ol' Charly said (paraphrasing): "Just wait ... when the fossil record is more complete we'll have that evidence."

                  Okay, almost 140 years later there were tons and tons of fossils. Oops, the evidence showed THE OPPOSITE! "What to do? Abandon Evolution? Are you kidding?!? Evolution is our BELIEF, we cannot possibly abandon that. Okay, so how do we rescue our baby? Ah, Eldredge and Gould invoke SP and call it "Punctuated Equilibrium". Yay, the day is saved ... Evolution stands ... we're such great scientists!"

                  The moral of the story: Evolutionists plant a goal post - "this will falsify Evolution". Then, when something comes along that throws a monkey wrench into the gears, they dig up the goal post and move it another 20 yards out. "Uhmmm ... THIS will falsify Evolution". On and on and on ...
                  .
                  .
                  .
                  Related: I'm reading (in the 2nd Edition), the responses that Meyer gave to his critics on his book Darwin's Doubt. It would do all of you a world of good to read that book. That suggestion assumes, of course, that you are interested in the TRUTH on the matter -- an assumption that I know very well does NOT apply to many of you.

                  Jorge

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    Klaus if you are just here to Jorge bash and flame, then please leave the thread. It is tedious to read your posts.
                    Seriously, Sparko, what you say is the message that my three
                    little guys was meant to convey, i.e., it is
                    tedious, boring and uninformative to read Santa's posts.

                    At least I try to make my posts contain some truth, even when
                    I'm trying to aggravate the Evolutionists here. Can't help myself.

                    Jorge

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      Sort of an ironic tactic to take considering how you went out and purchased a PhD.
                      THAT again?

                      I have already stated that I do not use the PhD.
                      For the second printing of Without Excuse, I have asked
                      the publisher to remove 'PhD' from the cover. I stand on the
                      truth and strength of my arguments, not on anything else.

                      So why, then, do you continue?
                      ANSWER: because it serves your agenda, that's why.

                      How you and your kind can sleep at night is, for me, one of the mysteries in the universe.

                      Jorge

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Jorge View Post
                        Once we were told (have you read ol' Charlie's book?) that the fossil record would show innumerable examples of "species slowly changing as new features, species and phyla" emerged.
                        No, we weren't. I can't find that quote in ol' Charlie's book. Nor does it get a single hit on Google. I think Jorge invented it.

                        Roy
                        Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                        MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                        MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                        seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by klaus54 View Post
                          Stop what? The coward business? How else would you describe the unnamed-one's behavior?

                          K%4
                          Listen, you are going over the top with your disruption and flaming. I warned you twice now. Stop it. Or start a thread in the psychotherapy room.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by seer View Post
                            I like Jim, and I like you - I know you guys have a history, but I have generally found him to be gracious.
                            Gracious, kind, jovial, nice, pleasant, friendly ... all of those things are okay.

                            Me, I much prefer qualities such as rock-solid honesty, sincerity, truthfulness, consistency, logical, open-minded and so on. Granted, it is best to have the entire package but I've not seen much of that and so, again, given a choice I'll take my latter list over the former.

                            But this isn't a popularity contest. The only thing that matters here - that should matter - is the truth. Your post expressed an excellent, profound point and the response you got from O-Mudd was the typical Cue Card Party Line from the School of Evolutionary Thinking. I couldn't let that slide.

                            Sorry if I'm not "gracious" enough - got'ta call 'em as I see 'em.

                            Jorge

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Jorge View Post
                              Seriously, Sparko, what you say is the message that my three
                              little guys was meant to convey, i.e., it is
                              tedious, boring and uninformative to read Santa's posts.

                              At least I try to make my posts contain some truth, even when
                              I'm trying to aggravate the Evolutionists here. Can't help myself.

                              Jorge
                              I don't mind a little back-and-forth fighting going on, that is going to happen in Nat sci. You need a thick skin here. But Klaus is going over the top. As the thread starter, you know you have the right to ask someone to leave your thread if they are disrupting it, right?

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Roy View Post
                                No, we weren't. I can't find that quote in ol' Charlie's book. Nor does it get a single hit on Google. I think Jorge invented it.

                                Roy
                                You're kidding, right? This one is as old as the hills. I found this in 30 seconds :

                                " During his life, Charles Darwin was puzzled over the fossil record. For it to back his theory, the evidence should show a fine gradation between the different animal species and have millions of intermediate links.

                                He stated it this way: "The number of intermediate and transitional links, between all living and extinct species, must have been inconceivably great . But assuredly, if this theory [of evolution] be true, such have lived upon the earth" ( The Origin of Species ,1958, Mentor edition, p. 289).

                                Yet faced with the evidence, he admitted: "The distinctiveness of specific forms, and their not being blended together by innumerable transitional links, is a very obvious difficulty... Why then is not every geological formation and every stratum full of such intermediate links? Geology assuredly does not reveal any such finely-graduated organic chain; and this, perhaps, is the most obvious and serious objection to my theory" (p. 287).

                                He thought that eventually the "innumerable transitional links" integral to his theory would be found.

                                As paleontologist and evolutionist David Raup readily admits: "Well, we are now about 120 years after Darwin and the knowledge of the fossil record has been greatly expanded. We now have a quarter of a million fossil species but the situation hasn't changed much .

                                "The record of evolution is still surprisingly jerky and, ironically, we have even fewer examples of evolutionary transitions than we had in Darwin's time... So Darwin's problem has not been alleviated in the last 120 years and we still have a record which does show change but one that can hardly be looked upon as the most reasonable consequence of natural selection" ( Field Museum of Natural History Bulletin, 1979, p. 25).

                                Where is the gradual evolution of mutated species from one kind to another, ...


                                "This is the verdict of modern paleontology: The record does not show gradual, Darwinian evolution," notes journalist George Sim Johnston. "Otto Schindewolf, perhaps the leading paleontologist of the 20th century, wrote that the fossils 'directly contradict' Darwin.

                                Steven Stanley, a paleontologist who teaches at Johns Hopkins, writes in The New Evolutionary Timetable that 'the fossil record does not convincingly document a single transition from one species to another'" ("An Evening With Darwin in New York," Crisis, April 2006, online edition).


                                Do try harder, Roy.

                                Jorge

                                Comment

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