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"AI is a dream we shouldn't be having"

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
    Oh yeah - and 'too much' didn't amount to much at all. Then there were those horrible moments when the stencil caught on something and got ripped to shreds in the mimeograph...

    I luckily only have to hear the stories and never had to do it myself.
    I'm not here anymore.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Teallaura View Post







      I found this really interesting.
      Back in the 1970's, while in an Air Force Research lab, I was involved with Pattern Recognition (PR) and AI. Back then it was believed that "AI was not too far away - waiting on computers to advance some more." Almost 40 years later the "not too far away" has moved about 100 light years away.

      For a short while - less than a year - I kind of thought along the same lines (AI will "soon" be real). That was ignorance on my part. It was while working on theoretical PR of handwriting and face recognition that I realized that the problem was many orders of magnitude beyond what I had thought. Shortly after that I adopted the position that I carry to this day : IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN - not ever!

      We can and will get progressively closer by way of Expert Systems combined with super-super computers but true AI is impossible. Why? For a similar reason why a natural origin of life is impossible - there is more to life (and intelligence) than bringing together the right chemical elements (or electronic components).

      Of course, I am well aware that the Materialists believe otherwise (it is part of their belief system) and that's why they'll continue reaching for their Holy Grail. I will bet the farm ten times over that true AI will never be come a reality (but a close facsimile will).

      Jorge

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      • #18
        A light year is a unit of distance measurement, not time. Some AI systems would not make that mistake. Superior in at least one way than Jorge.
        The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

        [T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

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        • #19
          Using 'light year' as a metaphor for 'extremely far from goal' is perfectly acceptable in English vernacular.
          "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

          "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

          My Personal Blog

          My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

          Quill Sword

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
            A light year is a unit of distance measurement, not time. Some AI systems would not make that mistake. Superior in at least one way than Jorge.
            Are you on crack?

            You actually think I don't know what a light year is?
            Here's a hint: I completed 6 years worth of undergraduate and graduate study in Physics.
            I MEANT 100 light years in the sense that "it is very, very far away - unattainably far away".

            You may now return to your 'pipe'.

            Jorge

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
              Using 'light year' as a metaphor for 'extremely far from goal' is perfectly acceptable in English vernacular.
              I wrote my previous post before reading the above - thanks.
              These people are so rabidly fanatical in their anti-YEC (or anti-Jorge)
              stance that even the simplest things must be explained. To be pitied!

              Jorge

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
                That's not really accurate.
                There are suppositions.
                Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
                  I've seen robots that are actively learning. Yes, we have really strong systems that are just database-lookup programs. In truth, part of intelligence is database lookup. It's more than that, of course, but you don't have inference and pattern recognition without remembrance of previous encounters.
                  Learning and memory are not sentience. You can lose the ability to remember and still be sentient.
                  Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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                  • #24
                    Sorry, Jorge. I tend to think of possible future scientific advances (or evolution if you prefer) in terms of time away, not distance away. Makes more sense to me anyway. As for being anti-YEC, while I lean to the OE view, I still think it's possible that Earth, not necessarily the universe itself, is young in some ways. Who's the one who can say that it didn't happen the way God said in Genesis? We need more details than there are in it.
                    The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

                    [T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

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                    • #25
                      No one who works daily with today's computers and data centers can truly believe in the Singularity.

                      To be fair, both the hardware and the software is just not structured to do it in anything resembling human-level decision-making. Some crazy guys say that LISP machines (IIRC the only ones that did do machine learning properly and efficiently) may be the ones to look for, but programming in LISP is difficult and requires an understanding of how the underlying system works, which is way too hard to teach in a weeklong seminar, let along a TED talk.

                      Let it be known now-the worshipers of the Singularity will grown in inverse proportion to the actual ability of the underlying machines to bring it about.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
                        Sorry, Jorge. I tend to think of possible future scientific advances (or evolution if you prefer) in terms of time away, not distance away. Makes more sense to me anyway. As for being anti-YEC, while I lean to the OE view, I still think it's possible that Earth, not necessarily the universe itself, is young in some ways. Who's the one who can say that it didn't happen the way God said in Genesis? We need more details than there are in it.
                        No problem ... I'll apologize for a bit of over-reaction. Do understand that certain folk here (they know who) have me on the 'edge' at all times and so sometimes, like nitroglycerin, the minutest 'bump' will set me off.

                        As for your stance regarding YEC v. OE/OU, keep in mind that the major conflict is theological, not Naturalistic/empirical. Stated another way, if OE/OU caused no theological conflicts in Orthodox Christianity, there probably wouldn't be a debate (more like a war!) over that subject. Most people aren't aware of that. Anyway, just food for thought.

                        Jorge
                        Last edited by Jorge; 06-06-2014, 05:54 AM.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                          There are suppositions.
                          There's a lot more than that. We're not modifying states of mind and behaviors on supposition alone. We're not initiating actions in mice (like stopping what they're doing and going to get a drink of water) based on supposition alone. We might still be lacking a complete explanation, but we've got a lot more than just supposition from which to draw.


                          Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                          Learning and memory are not sentience. You can lose the ability to remember and still be sentient.
                          I didn't say they were, Jed. Reread what I said, please, and this time pay attention to the two sentences that you cut out. Sparko's claim that "We are not any closer to a true sentient artificial mind now than we were 100 years ago." is downright false.
                          I'm not here anymore.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Carrikature View Post


                            I've heard lots of horror stories about thin paper ripping with too much pressure.
                            and can you imagine a paper cut from a D-size drawing? Why I have need architects cut their own heads off. Oh the horror!

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
                              There's a lot more than that. We're not modifying states of mind and behaviors on supposition alone. We're not initiating actions in mice (like stopping what they're doing and going to get a drink of water) based on supposition alone. We might still be lacking a complete explanation, but we've got a lot more than just supposition from which to draw.




                              I didn't say they were, Jed. Reread what I said, please, and this time pay attention to the two sentences that you cut out. Sparko's claim that "We are not any closer to a true sentient artificial mind now than we were 100 years ago." is downright false.
                              No it's not. Merely imitating thinking is not sentience, or self-awareness. We are no closer to that now than ever. Just because a computer can answer questions or perform tasks does not make it sentient. It doesn't initiate thoughts, it has no mind. It is not self-aware.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                                and can you imagine a paper cut from a D-size drawing? Why I have need architects cut their own heads off. Oh the horror!
                                I still get those, though E1 are more common for me.
                                I'm not here anymore.

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