Quantum Entanglement?

[Cerebrum123]

Do you want me to go mad now, or should I wait to later? Just asking...

Make it later, then they can make it happen in two places at the same time!

[Sparko]

Do you want me to go mad now, or should I wait to later? Just asking...

Now is fine with me.

[Cerebrum123]

Now is fine with me.

Considering where we are, isn't he already mad?

[Zymologist]

Damn good questions. We don't know. We may never know. The math works, the experiments are clear, but that's all we got. Quantum stuff is weirder than snake's suspenders, and is so far removed from our everyday experience that it's quite possible we can't truly understand it.

And many physicists think that before the measurement it's not a question of not knowing the entangled particle's property value, it's that the property does not have a value until it is measured.

Great comparison.

[seer]

Now is fine with me.

Perhaps I just should stick this pen in my eye - that should help!

[JonF]

So how can we conclude that nothing travels faster than the speed of light - obviously something is traveling faster than that -instantly as a matter of fact.

It's not established that anything is traveling. How can it be that there could be nothing traveling? We don't know.

[seer]

It's not established that anything is traveling. How can it be that there could be nothing traveling? We don't know.

Them how do the two particles, separated, interact with each other, where is the connection? Like I said, I just don't see how this is possible.

[JonF]

Nobody sees how it is possible. We know it's possible, we can calculate exactly how and when it's possible, but we don't know how it's possible.

[Sparko]

Them how do the two particles, separated, interact with each other, where is the connection? Like I said, I just don't see how this is possible.

sheesh how dumb are you seer? It is Sooooooo simple....

--
It has been indicated that relational logic may serve as the common foundation of quantum mechanics and string theory. A relation may be represented by a spinor and the Cartan-Penrose connection of spinor to geometry, allows to abstract geometry as the outcome of entangled relations-spinors. Our approach goes in parallel with Wheeler’s pregeometry, where pregeometry, the stage preceding geometry, is based on a calculus of relations-propositions. With a single spinor related to the null cone of Minkowski space-time, we search for the geometry when we couple a left-handed spinor and a right-handed spinor. We find that a Majorana-type coupling gives rise to the ordinary entanglement, while a Diractype coupling generates an extra dimension with two branes coexisting in the extra dimension.
http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperIn...1#.U4zBQCi7ovw

See? even a first grader can understand that, right?

[seer]

sheesh how dumb are you seer? It is Sooooooo simple....

--
It has been indicated that relational logic may serve as the common foundation of quantum mechanics and string theory. A relation may be represented by a spinor and the Cartan-Penrose connection of spinor to geometry, allows to abstract geometry as the outcome of entangled relations-spinors. Our approach goes in parallel with Wheeler’s pregeometry, where pregeometry, the stage preceding geometry, is based on a calculus of relations-propositions. With a single spinor related to the null cone of Minkowski space-time, we search for the geometry when we couple a left-handed spinor and a right-handed spinor. We find that a Majorana-type coupling gives rise to the ordinary entanglement, while a Diractype coupling generates an extra dimension with two branes coexisting in the extra dimension.
http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperIn...1#.U4zBQCi7ovw

See? even a first grader can understand that, right?

Well, since you put it what way! Ok, when I stick this pen in my eye, I should do it quickly - right?

[seer]

Nobody sees how it is possible. We know it's possible, we can calculate exactly how and when it's possible, but we don't know how it's possible.

Does that bother anyone else but me?

[JonF]

Does that bother anyone else but me?

There's an acknowledged view of QM informally known as "shut up and calculate". I incline towards it although my view is not based on expertise. The basic idea is that true understanding is impossible but the math works.

That said it bothers a lot of people. But the universe doesn't care.

[Roy]

Yes, but how does particle A have any effect on particle B if there is distance between? Where is the physical connection? In the link from the OP the two particles in question were separated by three meters. What is interacting between or going between the two particles?

Toss a coin onto a ceramic tile then, without looking at the result, cover it in a layer of cement. After the cement dries, use a high-powered saw to cut the coin and the concrete enclosing it and the tile beneath into two halves. Leave one half where it is, and put the other on a flight to a friend distant land. Once the flight has disembarked, take the half-coin that you kept and dissolve the cement so that you can see which (half-)side is uppermost - heads or tails. Phone your friend, tell him which way up your half of the coin landed, and get him to dissolve the cement on his half. Surprise! his half-coin is the same way up as yours.

How did half-coin A have any effect on half-coin B if there are several thousand miles between them? Where is the physical connection? What is interacting or going between the half-coins?

Could you use this technique to transmit information to your foreign friend?

Roy

[seer]

Toss a coin onto a ceramic tile then, without looking at the result, cover it in a layer of cement. After the cement dries, use a high-powered saw to cut the coin and the concrete enclosing it and the tile beneath into two halves. Leave one half where it is, and put the other on a flight to a friend distant land. Once the flight has disembarked, take the half-coin that you kept and dissolve the cement so that you can see which (half-)side is uppermost - heads or tails. Phone your friend, tell him which way up your half of the coin landed, and get him to dissolve the cement on his half. Surprise! his half-coin is the same way up as yours.

How did half-coin A have any effect on half-coin B if there are several thousand miles between them? Where is the physical connection? What is interacting or going between the half-coins?

Could you use this technique to transmit information to your foreign friend?

Roy

I'm not sure what you are saying Roy. Your above example could simply be chance. Now say that both our halves are heads, but suddenly one flips to tails (since the particles in question are dynamic) the other will also flip to tails instantly - correct? And yes, I think this could be used to transmit information, or some kind of code. It is the way that these particles interact or mirror each others movement even at a distance that bothers me. What connects them? Physically?

[JonF]

His example, could not be chance; the two half-coins will match every time.

It is the way that these particles interact or mirror each others movement even at a distance that bothers me. What connects them? Physically?

You really are having a problem with this concept, aren't you? Forget movement, movement may or may not exist. We haven't found any physical connection, there may not be one. It ain't anything like our everyday experience, and our everyday experience is useless as a guide to what's happening. We see connections between events all the time but that does not mean that there must be a connection between entangled particles.