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Is fingerprint evidence faulty?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    ... here she is as a brunette:



    and as a blonde on ncis:



    I think she looks better with dark hair.
    Very perceptive!
    βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
    ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

    אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

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    • #47
      She's def hotter as a brunette.

      K54

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
        You went to school with Inuyasha?






        Sorry, couldn't resist...
        Waaaaaaaaay too much anime

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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        • #49
          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
          Waaaaaaaaay too much anime
          Says the guy who got the joke...
          "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

          "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

          My Personal Blog

          My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

          Quill Sword

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          • #50
            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            Quite possibly. At least according to a report by the British expert that introduced the first automated fingerprint detection system to the Metropolitan Police and the Home Offices first Forensic Science Regulator, Mike Silverman. He claims that despite what is widely believed it has not been shown that fingerprints are unique.

            He points out that "not everyones fingerprints have been recorded so its impossible to prove that no two are the same" and added that while "its improbable, but so is winning the lottery, and people do that every week."

            Silverman also notes that families can share elements of the same pattern and thinks that such factors as human error, partial prints and false positives mean that fingerprints evidence is not infallible.

            Elaborating on some of the problems Silverman said that, "No two fingerprints are ever exactly alike in every detail; even two impressions recorded immediately after each other from the same finger. And the fingerprint often isnt perfect, particularly at a crime scene. It might be dirty or smudged. There are all sorts of things that reduce the accuracy.

            He added that, "It requires an expert examiner to determine whether a print taken from crime scene and one taken from a subject are likely to have originated from the same finger."

            He also pointed to other difficulties such as scanning fingerprints of the elderly as their skin loses elasticity making them warped and some conditions that leaves some people with smooth, featureless fingertips. I remember a police officer friend of mine telling me how his bricklayer son-in-law had virtually no fingerprints.

            Silverman also pointed to several cases were innocent people have been wrongly accused based on inaccurate fingerprinting evidence. For example back in 2004, an attorney from Oregon, Brandon Mayfield, was wrongly linked to the Madrid train bombings by FBI fingerprint experts who claimed to identify his prints as being on a bag containing detonating devices were found by Spanish authorities. The FBI described the fingerprint match as "100% verified" and as a result he was arrested and detained for two weeks before being released.

            Also noted was a recent study by Southampton University found that two thirds of experts who were unknowingly shown the same sets of fingerprints twice came to a different conclusion on the second occasion.



            Further Reading:

            Why your fingerprints may not be unique

            Are Forensics Experts Relying On Inconsistent Fingerprint Technology?


            Zombie Thread.jpg

            Our fingerprints may not be unique, claims AI
            There is a belief that each fingerprint on one person's hand is completely unique but that is now being challenged by research from Columbia University.

            A team at the US university trained an AI tool to examine 60,000 fingerprints to see if it could work out which ones belonged to the same individual.

            The researchers claim the technology could identify, with 75-90% accuracy, whether prints from different fingers came from one person.

            But they are not sure how it works.

            "We don't know for sure how the AI does it," admitted Prof Hod Lipson, a roboticist at Columbia University who supervised the study.

            Forensics

            The researchers think the AI tool was analysing the fingerprints in a different way to traditional methods - focusing on the orientation of the ridges in the centre of a finger rather than the way in which the individual ridges end and fork which is known as minutiae.

            "It is clear that it isn't using traditional markers that forensics have been using for decades," said Prof Lipson. "It seems like it is using something like the curvature and the angle of the swirls in the centre."

            Prof Lipson said both he and Gabe Guo, an undergraduate student, were both surprised by the outcome.

            "We were very sceptical... we had to check and double check," he said.

            That may not be news to others in the field.

            Graham Williams, professor of forensic science at Hull University, said the idea of unique fingerprints had never been set in stone.

            "We don't actually know that fingerprints are unique," he said. "All we can say is that as far as we are aware, no two people have yet to demonstrate the same fingerprints."

            Crime scenes

            The results of Columbia University's study could have the potential to impact both biometrics - using one particular finger to unlock a device or provide identification - and forensic science.

            If, for example, an unidentified thumb print is found at crime scene A, and an unidentified index finger print at crime scene B, the two could not currently be forensically connected to the same person - but the AI tool could be able to identify this.

            The Columbia University team, none of whom have forensic backgrounds, admitted that more research was needed.

            AI tools are typically trained on vast amounts of data and many more fingerprints would be required to develop this technology further.

            Additionally, all the fingerprints used to develop the model were complete prints and of good quality, whereas often in the real world partial or poor prints are more likely to be found.

            "Our tool is not good enough for deciding evidence in court cases but it is good for generating leads in forensics investigations," claimed Mr Guo.

            But Dr Sarah Fieldhouse, associate professor of forensic science at Staffordshire University, said she did not think the study would have "significant impact" on criminal casework at this stage.

            She said there were questions around whether the markers the AI tool was focusing on remained the same depending on how the skin twisted as it came into contact with the print surface, and also whether they remained the same over the course of a lifetime, like traditional markers do.

            But this could be tricky to answer as the researchers are uncertain about exactly what the AI is doing, as is the case with many AI-driven tools.

            The Columbia University study has been peer-reviewed and will be published in the journal Science Advances on Friday.

            But a pair of twins in Cheshire might be ahead of everyone. Their grandmother Carol told the BBC her two grandchildren can open each other's iPhones using their own fingers.

            "They showed me on Christmas day," she said. "We were told they were identical when they were born but I can tell the difference between them as they've got older."

            She claimed that her grandchildren can also bypass the handsets' facial recognition feature.

            Fingerprints are formed before birth. Research published last year suggested the genetic process behind them may be similar to the way animals like zebras and leopards get their markings: a theory first proposed by codebreaker Alan Turing in the 1950s.


            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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            • #51
              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              Waaaaaaaaay too much anime
              I never did noticed that - had to double check the pics.
              1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
              .
              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
              Scripture before Tradition:
              but that won't prevent others from
              taking it upon themselves to deprive you
              of the right to call yourself Christian.

              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

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