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What is Creation Science or "Biblical Creation"? Simple words, but how to flesh out?

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  • #16
    "manalive883" posted in AP201 that there is indeed scientific evidence for YEC. I was wondering if he would care to post on this thread. He also referred to science that disagreed with a 6/24 6000 year old creation as "provincial science". Never heard that pejorative before. I've heard "historical" vis-a-vis "operational" science used as argument-by-neologism, but never heard of science referred to as "provincial. " That sounds like something a witch doctor would practice.

    He also said that the Genesis stories pointed unambiguously (his word) to a 6/24 young Earth. Well, that putative non-ambiguity is exactly what I'm looking for here.

    He did mention Sarfati as a scientific authority on YEC. IIRC, he has made some whoppers, e.g., dearth of supernova remnants.

    "manalive883", why don't you step up to the plate?

    K54

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    • #17
      Originally posted by klaus54 View Post
      "manalive883", why don't you step up to the plate?
      Have you PM'd him to invite him?
      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        Have you PM'd him to invite him?
        Don't how to do that yet. I'm too provincial.

        K54

        P.S. Just figured it out, and done diddly did it!
        Last edited by klaus54; 04-13-2014, 10:16 AM. Reason: Added P.S.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Roy View Post
          Try Jorge.

          Roy
          Jorge claims that the KJV is the best translation but is quick to abandon it for others he usually deems inferior if it doesn't support his YEC POV. For instance in Psalm 104 some versions (including the KJV) describe the waters as moving while in others it describes the mountains that the water covered as moving. Jorge prefers the latter translation since he sees it as supporting YEC "Flood Geology" so at this point he readily tosses the KJV aside. This is a bit odd in that the psalm, long regarded as the Creation Psalm, is actually describing the creation here (although in very flowery, poetic language) and not the flood.

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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          • #20
            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            Jorge claims that the KJV is the best translation but is quick to abandon it for others he usually deems inferior if it doesn't support his YEC POV. For instance in Psalm 104 some versions (including the KJV) describe the waters as moving while in others it describes the mountains that the water covered as moving. Jorge prefers the latter translation since he sees it as supporting YEC "Flood Geology" so at this point he readily tosses the KJV aside. This is a bit odd in that the psalm, long regarded as the Creation Psalm, is actually describing the creation here (although in very flowery, poetic language) and not the flood.
            Yes. And "firmament" (from the Vulgate "firmamentum") as a translation of "raqia" or "stereoma" should cause a problem since it supports an ANE cosmology rather than a strong concordist view a la YEC.

            Did you like the photo of the "bumper sticker" I snapped yesterday?

            K54

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            • #21
              Originally posted by klaus54 View Post
              Don't how to do that yet. I'm too provincial.

              K54

              P.S. Just figured it out, and done diddly did it!
              It's generally bad form to create a thread about somebody, or mention them in a thread, without giving them the courtesy of letting them know it's there. You can lead a horse to water, but not if you don't inform him in writing, first.
              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                It's generally bad form to create a thread about somebody, or mention them in a thread, without giving them the courtesy of letting them know it's there. You can lead a horse to water, but not if you don't inform him in writing, first.
                Geesh, sorry! Seems to be ok to reference Jorge, but he must have some special dispensation around here.

                Back to the thread: I'd like SOMEONE to respond to SOMETHING. What's-his-face mentioned the nonsensical neologism "provincial science", and I would have liked to have him/her explain this notion in an "unprotected" thread.

                No PM response from the-one-about-whom-we-must-not-speak yet.

                Anyone up for discussing science and theology, or was this website just selling a bill of goods?

                K54

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  Jorge claims that the KJV is the best translation but is quick to abandon it for others he usually deems inferior if it doesn't support his YEC POV. For instance in Psalm 104 some versions (including the KJV) describe the waters as moving while in others it describes the mountains that the water covered as moving. Jorge prefers the latter translation since he sees it as supporting YEC "Flood Geology" so at this point he readily tosses the KJV aside. This is a bit odd in that the psalm, long regarded as the Creation Psalm, is actually describing the creation here (although in very flowery, poetic language) and not the flood.
                  Jorge cherry picks what he cherry picks from.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    What I would like to 'flesh out' is the justification of this highly flawed line of logical and reason that rejects the scientific knowledge, or selectively parse it to make square pegs fit in round holes. This is not problem of clinging to ancient paradigms is not exclusive to Christianity. It is becoming increasingly in vogue in Islam, and some sects of Hinduism also reject evolution like the Hari Krishna. It is an interesting paradox of the relationship of human belief and the reality of the world around us..
                    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                    go with the flow the river knows . . .

                    Frank

                    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                      What I would like to 'flesh out' is the justification of this highly flawed line of logical and reason that rejects the scientific knowledge, or selectively parse it to make square pegs fit in round holes. This is not problem of clinging to ancient paradigms is not exclusive to Christianity. It is becoming increasingly in vogue in Islam, and some sects of Hinduism also reject evolution like the Hari Krishna. It is an interesting paradox of the relationship of human belief and the reality of the world around us..
                      Shuny, That's basically what I want to get at. I'd like ardent YECs/Genesis literalists, who want to reconcile that view with science, (a Biblical Scientific Creationist?) to give some specifics of what their view is, both scientifically and exegetically. And, if possible, I'd like to avoid weasel words like "historical vs. operational" science or the new-to-me term "provincial" science.

                      K54

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        This should be limited to YEC (and maybe certain OECs?) in accordance with the OP. This does not appear to be a general 'free for all" on Creation Science.
                        Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                          This should be limited to YEC (and maybe certain OECs?) in accordance with the OP. This does not appear to be a general 'free for all" on Creation Science.
                          Fair enough, and fine with me. But only the non-YECs have responded, and if we agree to not harass them, they should have no problem. After all, it's supposed to be an issue near and dear to them, and one would think they'd fancy defending their theological, exegetical, and scientific positions in open forum.

                          So let's limit responses to YECs and (non-TE) OECs, and see what happens.

                          K54

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by klaus54 View Post
                            Fair enough, and fine with me. But only the non-YECs have responded, and if we agree to not harass them, they should have no problem. After all, it's supposed to be an issue near and dear to them, and one would think they'd fancy defending their theological, exegetical, and scientific positions in open forum.
                            So let's limit responses to YECs and (non-TE) OECs, and see what happens.
                            K54
                            The hush is easily explained because this thing is much simpler than you think. Y or O EC’s are people who think that Genesis is God’s diary. There is no more analysis to their position than that although they will occasionally make strenuous efforts to convince you that there is.
                            “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                            “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                            “not all there” - you know who you are

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                              The hush is easily explained because this thing is much simpler than you think. Y or O EC’s are people who think that Genesis is God’s diary. There is no more analysis to their position than that although they will occasionally make strenuous efforts to convince you that there is.
                              Well, I'd like to see some of those strenuous efforts expressed here. Strenuous efforts to make their (unambiguous) Genesis exegesis harmonize with modern scientific knowledge, e.g. Deep Time expressed in the geologic record, vast distances varied history in the Cosmos, and in the genome.

                              K54

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by klaus54 View Post
                                Shuny, That's basically what I want to get at. I'd like ardent YECs/Genesis literalists, who want to reconcile that view with science, (a Biblical Scientific Creationist?) to give some specifics of what their view is, both scientifically and exegetically. And, if possible, I'd like to avoid weasel words like "historical vs. operational" science or the new-to-me term "provincial" science.

                                K54
                                I believe exegetically the role of the kataphatic view of nature Biblical scripture tends toward a more literal view as positively authored or directly inspired by God in part or whole. This leads to the conclusion that the beliefs expressed by the NT authors concerning the nature of OT scripture is the standard for understanding Genesis and the rest of the Pentateuch.
                                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                                Frank

                                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                                Comment

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