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Why I don't trust environmentalists

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  • #16
    Originally posted by JimL View Post

    Well perhaps those of you who see it as alarmism are ignorant or simply don't care about future generations. Had we begun to deal with it way back when Jimmy Carter in the 70s and later Al Gore tried to make the issue better understood by the public we would be much further ahead of the game today in dealing with it. The right wingers, propagandists, the corporate lobbyists and the politicians they bought and payed for have misinformed the public and stalled our efforts in dealing with it for 50 years now.
    If you listened to the alarmists back then humanity pretty much went extinct in the 90s or by the first few years in the 21st century.

    When you engage in chicken little tactics there's only yourself to blame when people stop listening to you.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by JimL View Post
      Well the fact that you et.al. still consider it climate hysteria it's not at all illogical to be skeptical of your motivations. Environmentalists groups are dedicated, educated and united on the environment, and there is no big conspiracy going on between them against Sequoa trees. What are you thinking?
      Yes, all environmentalists are reasonable mostly-peaceful dedicated, educated persons only concerned about the environment.

      15 Tesla vehicles were torched by a group of radical morons

      teslas burning.jpg
      Fifteen Tesla vehicles were lit on fire at a car dealership in Frankfurt, Germany, this week, and a radical group of environmentalists has claimed to be behind the act of arson.
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by JimL View Post
        ....and later Al Gore tried to make the issue better understood by the public ....
        Yeah, Al Gore did for environmentalism what Jim and Tammy did for evangelism.

        jim and tammy.jpg
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by JimL View Post
          Well the fact that you et.al. still consider it climate hysteria it's not at all illogical to be skeptical of your motivations. Environmentalists groups are dedicated, educated and united on the environment, and there is no big conspiracy going on between them against Sequoa trees. What are you thinking?

          I don't consider it all climate hysteria, but histrionics plagues the Left. I believe anthropogenic climate change is real but that doesn't mean there are not special interests or hysteria involved. . I have no problem with moving nuclear power where it is possible. It was the socialist Gerhard Schröder who began denuclearization of Germany which handed Putin billions. The Belgian Minister of Energy co-founded a law firm with Gazprom as one of its clients. Then there is the 90% non-US owned Bermuda domiciled MERITAGE HOLDINGS LTD. that contributes $219,386,468 book value to the Sea Change Foundation that donates to a variety of groups. There is the Mecklenburg-Vorpommern government headed by a socialist funding an environmental group to skate around Russian sanctions. Let's not forget Gore:


          X-SCITECH Gore: Arctic Ice May Soon Vanish in Summer


          DECEMBER 14, 2009 / 10:37 AM EST / CBS/AP Al Gore has told the U.N. climate conference that new data suggests the Arctic polar ice cap may disappear in the summertime as soon as five to seven years from now.

          Clicking through a slide show Monday in a packed side event, the former U.S. vice-president joined the foreign ministers of Norway and Denmark in presenting two new reports on melting Arctic ice.

          The Arctic Ocean sea ice has shrunk dramatically, to record low levels, the past several summers. Scientists blame global warming, which has raised temperatures twice as fast in the far north as elsewhere.

          Gore said polar scientists told him Sunday that the latest data "suggest a 75 percent chance the entire polar ice cap will melt in summer within the next five to seven years."



          Environmental groups are not always as dedicated as you may think. The Sierra Club, which has received funds from the Sea Change Foundation, is against nuclear despite nuclear being the best option for decarbonization. Solar panels that end up in landfills are useless. Massive wind farms disrupt migratory birds besides just killing them. Wind turbines also get into issue with the materials needed. EVs end up in graveyards in China notwithstanding the environmental toll of lithium mining or the child labor of cobalt mining.


          P1) If , then I win.

          P2)

          C) I win.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Diogenes View Post


            I don't consider it all climate hysteria, but histrionics plagues the Left. I believe anthropogenic climate change is real but that doesn't mean there are not special interests or hysteria involved. . I have no problem with moving nuclear power where it is possible. It was the socialist Gerhard Schröder who began denuclearization of Germany which handed Putin billions. The Belgian Minister of Energy co-founded a law firm with Gazprom as one of its clients. Then there is the 90% non-US owned Bermuda domiciled MERITAGE HOLDINGS LTD. that contributes $219,386,468 book value to the Sea Change Foundation that donates to a variety of groups. There is the Mecklenburg-Vorpommern government headed by a socialist funding an environmental group to skate around Russian sanctions. Let's not forget Gore:


            X-SCITECH Gore: Arctic Ice May Soon Vanish in Summer


            DECEMBER 14, 2009 / 10:37 AM EST / CBS/AP Al Gore has told the U.N. climate conference that new data suggests the Arctic polar ice cap may disappear in the summertime as soon as five to seven years from now.

            Clicking through a slide show Monday in a packed side event, the former U.S. vice-president joined the foreign ministers of Norway and Denmark in presenting two new reports on melting Arctic ice.

            The Arctic Ocean sea ice has shrunk dramatically, to record low levels, the past several summers. Scientists blame global warming, which has raised temperatures twice as fast in the far north as elsewhere.

            Gore said polar scientists told him Sunday that the latest data "suggest a 75 percent chance the entire polar ice cap will melt in summer within the next five to seven years."



            Environmental groups are not always as dedicated as you may think. The Sierra Club, which has received funds from the Sea Change Foundation, is against nuclear despite nuclear being the best option for decarbonization. Solar panels that end up in landfills are useless. Massive wind farms disrupt migratory birds besides just killing them. Wind turbines also get into issue with the materials needed. EVs end up in graveyards in China notwithstanding the environmental toll of lithium mining or the child labor of cobalt mining.

            The one I remember the most regarding Gore was his continually claiming that Mount Kilimanjaro was losing it's snowy peak due to GW. But the real culprit was well understood -- deforestation.

            Cutting down the trees in the surrounding area made it more arid. There was no longer sufficient most air to be blown up over Kilimanjaro to cause snow.

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Catholicity View Post
              Because they run on campaigns like "save the trees" and then when the federal park service steps in out of concern to plant more trees, they sue the federal park service for interference. This just doesn't sit well with me. https://apple.news/AnQChawy_T0ea0aWIF3OJDQ
              "The National Park Service wants to replant sequoia groves in Sequoia and Kings Canyon National Parks, where wildfires in 2020 and 2021 inflicted lasting damage on the iconic sequoia forests. Environmentalists in California say it’s a huge mistake."
              I detect an underlying emotional and anti-environmental and global warming insecurity agenda here in your post and the responses by some. of Twebers followed by a flurry of meaningless posts from amateurs that do not reflect a sound scientific view of the real fundamental environment issues of how reforestation takes place without human intervention.

              It is true these forest naturally return after fires on their own from seeds and even sprouting from fallen trees and limbs.

              Source: https://www.savetheredwoods.org/interactive/giant-sequoia-and-fire/



              FIRE UNLOCKS LIFE

              Giant sequoia cones are serotinous, which means that fire on the forest floor causes them to dry out, open and release their seeds.

              This adaptation ensures that the tree times the release of most of its seeds to coincide with fire, which creates ideal conditions for regeneration success. Fire burns off woody debris and exposes the soil, it creates an ash layer that returns nutrients to the soil and increases sunlight by killing some of the competing pines and firs.THRIVING ON FIRE

              Giant sequoia can thrive in a world of frequent fires. The bark of a monarch can be up to two feet thick, insulating them from fire damage. It’s also rich with tannins that help the trees resist pests and disease, making giant sequoia resilient and long lived—the oldest known giant sequoia lived to be 3,200 years old.

              The thick bark also insulates living tissue from the low- to moderate-severity fires that burned frequently in the past. These fires were started by lightning or by Native tribes that used fire as a means of managing and caring for the forest. These fires regularly reduced fuels—the pine needles, fallen branches and other woody debris on the forest floor—and cleared out some of the smaller trees and brush, making extreme fires less likely.

              © Copyright Original Source



              There are environmental severe problems with these fires, but the problem of reforestation naturally is not one of them.
              Last edited by shunyadragon; 12-02-2023, 09:00 AM.
              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

              go with the flow the river knows . . .

              Frank

              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                I detect an underlying emotional and anti-environmental and global warming insecurity agenda here in your post and the responses by some. of Twebers followed by a flurry of meaningless posts from amateurs that do not reflect a sound scientific view of the real fundamental environment issues of how reforestation takes place without human intervention.

                Your meter is busted as neither the Feds nor greenies are entirely trustworthy.
                P1) If , then I win.

                P2)

                C) I win.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Diogenes View Post


                  Your meter is busted as neither the Feds nor greenies are entirely trustworthy.
                  More meaningless Trumpish rhetoric.

                  Did not answer the post nor address the issue.
                  Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                  Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                  But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                  go with the flow the river knows . . .

                  Frank

                  I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    The one I remember the most regarding Gore was his continually claiming that Mount Kilimanjaro was losing it's snowy peak due to GW. But the real culprit was well understood -- deforestation.

                    Cutting down the trees in the surrounding area made it more arid. There was no longer sufficient most air to be blown up over Kilimanjaro to cause snow.
                    More meaningless ranting citation of rank amateurs.
                    .
                    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                    go with the flow the river knows . . .

                    Frank

                    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                      More meaningless Trumpish rhetoric.
                      Zero Trumpish rhetoric detected.

                      Did not answer the post nor address the issue.
                      I've already addressed sequoias needing fire to reproduce earlier in the thread. People moving closer to forests is naturally going to put more property and people at risk. Federal mismanagement also contributes. It's just the favorite boogeyman is climate change.


                      Decades of mismanagement led to choked forests — now it's time to clear them out, fire experts say

                      P1) If , then I win.

                      P2)

                      C) I win.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                        More meaningless ranting citation of rank amateurs.
                        .
                        You actually hit upon one of Gore's biggest issues. As his Kilimanjaro claims demonstrated, he often has no idea what he is blathering on about. You'd think that those who were serious about GW would try to reign both him and Greta in rather than having them spout nonsense that makes everyone look foolish and feeds skepticism. But given how they allow China to keep massively increasing the amount of greenhouse gasses they pump out (they are literally bringing a new coal-powered plant online every single week) sort of reveals that they themselves don't see this as a serious issue.

                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Diogenes View Post

                          Zero Trumpish rhetoric detected.



                          I've already addressed sequoias needing fire to reproduce earlier in the thread. People moving closer to forests is naturally going to put more property and people at risk. Federal mismanagement also contributes. It's just the favorite boogeyman is climate change.


                          Decades of mismanagement led to choked forests — now it's time to clear them out, fire experts say
                          Improper forestry management leading to massive fires has been an issue that has been raised for a couple of decades now.

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            You actually hit upon one of Gore's biggest issues. As his Kilimanjaro claims demonstrated, he often has no idea what he is blathering on about. You'd think that those who were serious about GW would try to reign both him and Greta in rather than having them spout nonsense that makes everyone look foolish and feeds skepticism. But given how they allow China to keep massively increasing the amount of greenhouse gasses they pump out (they are literally bringing a new coal-powered plant online every single week) sort of reveals that they themselves don't see this as a serious issue.
                            If this actually true why do keep perpetually citing inaccurate amateurs instead of a less biased consideration of scientific sources? There is a long history of this on your part. Your beating a dead horse twice over.

                            Environmentalists particularly scientists mostly dismiss people like Gore.
                            Last edited by shunyadragon; 12-04-2023, 08:57 AM.
                            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                            go with the flow the river knows . . .

                            Frank

                            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                              Improper forestry management leading to massive fires has been an issue that has been raised for a couple of decades now.
                              Yes, a lot more than just decades. Controlled burns are progressively replacing old forest management. Once the fog clears the is nothing wrong with the environmentalists opposition to the reseeding effort, as environmentalist are opposed to the expansion of development near the National Parks and Reserves.

                              The over development of sensitive forests is opposed by environmentalists, and encourages the continued forest fire suppression in some areas,

                              Another factor that is neglected is the problem of global warming, which cases extreme drought conditions, and degradation of timber species not adapted to the extreme heat and drought conditions.

                              Considering all factors what is wrong with the environmentalist opposition to the reseeding efforts? What is the real constructive point of this thread?
                              Last edited by shunyadragon; 12-04-2023, 08:54 AM.
                              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                              go with the flow the river knows . . .

                              Frank

                              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                An amusing thread. Most comments seem concerned with issues in the USA and there are several snide comments about Gore and Thunberg. However, the real environmental issues are studiously ignored.

                                The ship of fools sails merrily onward.
                                "It ain't necessarily so
                                The things that you're liable
                                To read in the Bible
                                It ain't necessarily so
                                ."

                                Sportin' Life
                                Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

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