Anti-Vaxx 101 Thread

[Stoic]

Dr. Campbell -- Vax RNA in breast milk --

Trace amounts, only detected in half the subjects, and only in the first 48 hours after vaccination.

[Sparko]

Just got my updated COVID booster (the bivalent one with Omicron). That makes 5 so far and I am still not dead. I figure I will have to keep getting the boosters regularly just like I do flu and pneumonia shots.

[mossrose]

What if we "only" put a trace of strychnine in glasses of water and gave them to 100 people, but "only" half of them felt any effect?

[TheLurch]

Dr. Campbell -- Viral transmission not tested in Pfizer trials

First, I'm going to note that you're not even bothering to respond to the fact that one of the sources you're promoting can't even seem to read and/or understand the text under a graph.


In any case, no, the clinical trials of the vaccines did not focus on transmission; it focused on mortality and severe health consequences, because those are easy to measure objectively, and were the consequences that we most wanted to avoid. Transmission depends on exposure of other people, which is extremely difficult to measure objectively, hard to track, extremely expensive given all the PCR tests that had to be done, and relies on the assumption that the vaccinated individual was the only source of exposure for other people. So no, it wasn't tracked, the Pharma companies didn't claim they were in the documents they submitted to regulators, and the regulators discussed this openly in public hearings.

So why are you treating it like a revelation?

[Seeker]

What is the justification for closing bars and restaurants and yet leaving buses and subways absolutely crowed with people wearing masks? Are not the buses/subways more dangerous anyway, even with masks?

[TheLurch]

What is the justification for closing bars and restaurants and yet leaving buses and subways absolutely crowed with people wearing masks? Are not the buses/subways more dangerous anyway, even with masks?

I can't speak for all locations, but NYC has a wide variety of jobs - healthcare staff, supermarket employees, sanitation workers, etc. - that were considered essential, and continued during any lockdowns. Those people needed to be able to get to their essential jobs, and public transit was often the only way for them to do so.

[Stoic]

What if we "only" put a trace of strychnine in glasses of water and gave them to 100 people, but "only" half of them felt any effect?

Why would we do that?

[Stoic]

What is the justification for closing bars and restaurants and yet leaving buses and subways absolutely crowed with people wearing masks? Are not the buses/subways more dangerous anyway, even with masks?

Closing bars and restaurants means that the virus will spread more slowly, so that the people who have no choice but to take buses/subways to work will be less likely to contract the virus there, as fewer of their fellow riders will be infected, and thus able to pass the virus on to them.

[mossrose]

Why would we do that?

I was responding to your post here

https://theologyweb.com/campus/forum...74#post1421474

Thought I'd quoted it, but didn't, I guess.

[Stoic]

I was responding to your post here

https://theologyweb.com/campus/forum...74#post1421474

Thought I'd quoted it, but didn't, I guess.

If you were trying to compare giving people water with traces of strychnine in it for no particular reason to giving people vaccines which might leave a trace of mRNA in their breast milk for a few days in order to help prevent them from becoming seriously ill or dying, I don't really see how that furthers the conversation.

[mossrose]

If you were trying to compare giving people water with traces of strychnine in it for no particular reason to giving people vaccines which might leave a trace of mRNA in their breast milk for a few days in order to help prevent them from becoming seriously ill or dying, I don't really see how that furthers the conversation.

It was your usage of the word "only" I was trying to highlight.

At least we know what strychnine does. Nobody knows what traces of mRNA might do down the road to a very small child.

Sorry you can’t figure that out all by yourself.

[Roy]

You obviously aren't following along. I quoted Roy in full context - isolated one comment that he made and responded to it, because it was a dumb comment.

Bovine faeces.

You isolated three words from one comment, and responded as if the rest of that comment did not exist.

[TheLurch]

Nobody knows what traces of mRNA might do down the road to a very small child.

Just out of curiosity, why do you think that?

[mossrose]

Just out of curiosity, why do you think that?

Just out of curiosity, do you know what mRNA does down the road to a very small child?

[TheLurch]

Just out of curiosity, do you know what mRNA does down the road to a very small child?

Yes - allows them to live. Every protein in your cells is made from an mRNA. Without proteins being made, humans die.

Less facetiously, we can stop and consider what we actually know about RNA in the human body, because that's what's relevant.

We have studied the fate of RNAs inside human cells extensively. There are a variety of reasons for this:
A large component of the ribosome, which manufactures proteins, is RNA.
The complexes that splice messenger RNAs to their mature form include multiple RNA components.
Messenger RNAs encode proteins.
The inactivation of one X chromosome in XX individuals is mediated in part via an RNA.
Micro RNAs take part in gene regulatory networks.
A variety of viruses use RNA as their genetic material.
Probably other things I'm not thinking of off hand.

Through these studies, we've developed a detailed understanding of what sequences in RNA are required for translation into proteins; what sequences allow RNAs to interact with other components, what determines how quickly RNAs in a cell get digested and recycled, etc. The mRNA vaccines have sequences that allow them to function as messenger RNAs, which have short half-lives, and are digested and recycled within a couple of days — often far less than that (the average half-life of an mRNA in the cell appears to be about 7 hours). The proteins made from them will elicit an immune response with a long-lasting memory, but the levels seen here are too low to be likely to do that.

For a non-immune effect "down the road", you have to assume a mechanism for the persistence of the vaccine's RNA long after any other messenger RNA in the cell survives. And you have to assume that it is somehow specific to this vaccine, because otherwise every single RNA virus you're ever exposed to could do something similar, and your cells would be filled with very old, mature messenger RNAs made by the cell, and we know none of that happens.

There is absolutely no indication of such a mechanism. Can science rule out with 100% certainty that something might exist? No, that's not how science works - it's tentative, and subject to revision based on new evidence. But we've looked long and hard for things like this mechanism for the list of reasons mentioned above, and nothing's ever turned up.