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Consilient YEC evidence

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  • #46
    Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View Post
    Or you are. But everyone knows Jorge is right because Jorge says he is right and Jorge is infallible.
    If you believe that then why do you dare challenge me?


    In the meanwhile K54's questions go unanswered. There's still zero physical evidence that establishes an age of the Earth of less than 10,000 years and millions of pieces that show it's much much older.
    You haven't a clue of what you're talking about. Go haunt elsewhere.

    Jorge

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Jorge View Post
      If you believe that then why do you dare challenge me?




      You haven't a clue of what you're talking about. Go haunt elsewhere.

      Jorge
      So if you're infallible you should have "no problema" addressing the issues I brought up, at least in part.

      I know you're not God, and since you're infallible which kinda implies omniscience, that must mean you're impotent.

      And what the dickens do you mean by "haunting"? Is that slang for avoiding answering questions when asked more than once?

      K54

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by klaus54 View Post
        So if you're infallible you should have "no problema" addressing the issues I brought up, at least in part.

        I know you're not God, and since you're infallible which kinda implies omniscience, that must mean you're impotent.

        And what the dickens do you mean by "haunting"? Is that slang for avoiding answering questions when asked more than once?

        K54
        I've held off till now. Jorge likes to try to pretend there is no use talking to me and therefore that is why he won't post anything useful. But he does not have that history with you, Yet his content is the same. Nothing. Jorge has nothing except accusations for those who disagree with him. He claims science backs up his POV but he has nothing that could pass as science to back it up. He'll just never admit it. But he won't put this supposed science to any sort of scientific test to see if it can pass muster.

        And that is basically why this thread is empty*. Around here, Jorge is the 'strongest' YEC in terms of capacity to deal with science. And you see what that means. The YEC POV is bankrupt scientifically. Nothing but claims there is some really good YEC science somewhere and excuses as why they can't or won't show what that really good YEC science somewhere is.

        Jim

        *Of its requested content
        My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

        If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

        This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
          I've held off till now. Jorge likes to try to pretend there is no use talking to me and therefore that is why he won't post anything useful. But he does not have that history with you, Yet his content is the same. Nothing. Jorge has nothing except accusations for those who disagree with him. He claims science backs up his POV but he has nothing that could pass as science to back it up. He'll just never admit it. But he won't put this supposed science to any sort of scientific test to see if it can pass muster.

          And that is basically why this thread is empty*. Around here, Jorge is the 'strongest' YEC in terms of capacity to deal with science. And you see what that means. The YEC POV is bankrupt scientifically. Nothing but claims there is some really good YEC science somewhere and excuses as why they can't or won't show what that really good YEC science somewhere is.

          Jim

          *Of its requested content
          Jim,

          Doesn't Jorge's attitude seem rather Gnostic theologically? He say he knows something we don't but he won't explain it because we're lost and wouldn't be able to understand it. The whole "perfection" notion of many YECs smacks of the Platonic notion of perfection exemplified by the Ancient Greek geometric constructions being based on the "perfect" shapes: lines and circles. Oh, and "Aether" as the Fifth Element out of which the heavenly bodies consist. This seems consistent with the fact that the Hebrew word for "perfection" isn't used in the Genesis creation stories and the Man and Woman were in a special garden separated from the rest of the (imperfect?) world.

          I wonder if anyone has ever analyzed YEC theology from this perspective?

          My aim here was to get YECs to execute a "pincer move" using the dual armored columns of science and theology to support the jargon term "Creation Science". So far the offensive has bogged down in the Russian Mud Season of what appears to be flawed theology as well as having no ammo or reserves for the science.

          Sad. I was hoping to get some tasty steak and eggs to chew on but instead got Hard Tack.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by klaus54 View Post

            ...So far the offensive has bogged down in the Russian Mud Season of what appears to be flawed theology as well as having no ammo or reserves for the science.
            I think you have to understand the environment of NS301, which was harsh for YEC science and its proponents. It has been a rare thing to see some of the major YEC players come here to defend their science and by defend I do mean present and discuss the data. They tend not to last long, unless they are playing games.

            Originally posted by klaus54

            Sad. I was hoping to get some tasty steak and eggs to chew on but instead got Hard Tack.
            I think you should prepare for more years of disappointment, or shift to AP201.

            Comment


            • #51
              Welcome back Omega Red!
              I'm not here anymore.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Omega Red View Post
                I think you have to understand the environment of NS301, which was harsh for YEC science and its proponents.
                "Harsh" meaning containing knowledgeable and experienced opponents and fair and unbiased moderators?

                It's been my experience that a level playing field is too harsh for YEC proponents, and they much prefer venues where the rules are stacked in their favour.

                Roy
                Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
                  Welcome back Omega Red!
                  That too

                  Roy
                  Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                  MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                  MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                  seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Omega Red View Post
                    I think you have to understand the environment of NS301, which was harsh for YEC science and its proponents. It has been a rare thing to see some of the major YEC players come here to defend their science and by defend I do mean present and discuss the data. They tend not to last long, unless they are playing games.

                    I think you should prepare for more years of disappointment, or shift to AP201.
                    Why would YECs be any more open to presenting scientific evidence and dealing with a false assertion of unambiguous scripture interpretation in AP201 (Apologetics, I presume?)

                    And in a "natural science" forum I would presume that ridiculous unfounded assertions that challenge scientific theories would be met harshly. That's why I was asking for a degree of "consilience".

                    K54

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Roy View Post
                      "Harsh" meaning containing knowledgeable and experienced opponents and fair and unbiased moderators?
                      Yes and they still try and turn the tables and complain how unfair it all is.

                      Originally posted by Roy
                      It's been my experience that a level playing field is too harsh for YEC proponents, and they much prefer venues where the rules are stacked in their favour.

                      Roy
                      Agreed!

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by klaus54 View Post
                        Why would YECs be any more open to presenting scientific evidence and dealing with a false assertion of unambiguous scripture interpretation in AP201 (Apologetics, I presume?)
                        Because you wont see atheists in there, so some YECs will feel a little more secure in discussing ideas if that is what you are after. As for the "false assertion of unambiguous scripture", I believe it would be these type of comments that precipitate the lack of response. You words appear to convey preconceptions with little desire to engage in other thoughts.

                        Originally posted by klaus54
                        And in a "natural science" forum I would presume that ridiculous unfounded assertions that challenge scientific theories would be met harshly. That's why I was asking for a degree of "consilience".

                        K54
                        Well YEC science is creative and if you look at some proponents you will find that some of their assertions are based on data or perhaps better to say that they do use some data to support their assertions / arguments. Of course in the length and breadth of mainstream science this has also occurred and therefore sets up a tit-for-tat saber rattling response, which gets us know where in the discussion.

                        I have been requesting for some time the sum total of positive pieces of scientific evidence for a 6-12kyr life, earth, universe. I have found 4 and each of which can be explained quite well within mainstream science. Match that up against several orders of magnitude of data that supports mainstream science and it does seem incredible that YEC science proponents continue with the fight. So their other line of progress is to attack others, rather than defend their stuff. They want to take pot shots at mainstream, looking for any tiny blemish that they can use to dump the whole lot into the trash bin. I've been a (minor) part of TWeb since 2003 and I haven't seen much progress beyond the above.
                        Last edited by Omega Red; 03-28-2014, 12:32 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
                          Welcome back Omega Red!
                          Cheers!

                          When did it all come back online? I was searching monthly last year, but nothing appeared. I've relocated to Kazakhstan for a while and finally got round to checking again.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Omega Red View Post
                            Cheers!

                            When did it all come back online? I was searching monthly last year, but nothing appeared. I've relocated to Kazakhstan for a while and finally got round to checking again.
                            January 15th or so. What's in Kazakhstan (if I can ask)?
                            I'm not here anymore.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
                              January 15th or so. What's in Kazakhstan (if I can ask)?
                              New(-ish) university bearing the name of the president. I'm here to apply my trade and give my children some life and worldly experience.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Omega Red View Post
                                Because you wont see atheists in there, so some YECs will feel a little more secure in discussing ideas if that is what you are after. As for the "false assertion of unambiguous scripture", I believe it would be these type of comments that precipitate the lack of response. You words appear to convey preconceptions with little desire to engage in other thoughts.



                                Well YEC science is creative and if you look at some proponents you will find that some of their assertions are based on data or perhaps better to say that they do use some data to support their assertions / arguments. Of course in the length and breadth of mainstream science this has also occurred and therefore sets up a tit-for-tat saber rattling response, which gets us know where in the discussion.

                                I have been requesting for some time the sum total of positive pieces of scientific evidence for a 6-12kyr life, earth, universe. I have found 4 and each of which can be explained quite well within mainstream science. Match that up against several orders of magnitude of data that supports mainstream science and it does seem incredible that YEC science proponents continue with the fight. So their other line of progress is to attack others, rather than defend their stuff. They want to take pot shots at mainstream, looking for any tiny blemish that they can use to dump the whole lot into the trash bin. I've been a (minor) part of TWeb since 2003 and I haven't seen much progress beyond the above.
                                Label me a skeptic theist who has studied the YEC worldview of YEC for many years, and found no legitimate argument based on mainstream science.
                                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                                Frank

                                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                                Comment

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