Potential Evidence of Inflationary Big Bang

[shunyadragon]

Source: http://www.nbcnews.com/science/space/physicists-say-dust-over-big-bang-gravity-waves-has-fizzled-n296642

Physicists Say a Dust-Up Over Big Bang Gravity Waves Has Fizzled Out

The cat's out of the bag

On Thursday, a French-language update from members of the Planck team reported that the joint Planck/BICEP2 analysis was complete, and had drawn upon observations from the Keck Array as well. "There remains an excess, but it is far too low to be considered a detection and could be the result of simple variations associated with experimental noise," the report said.

That update was quickly taken off the Web, but the cat was out of the bag. On Friday, ESA revealed more of the details in a report aimed at a lay audience. The National Science Foundation followed with a similar news release.

ESA and NSF said the analysis found a large contribution to the polarization results from galactic dust, and a much smaller contribution from another source — deflections in the light waves that were induced by the cosmic web of massive structures that permeate the universe. This effect is known as gravitational lensing.

Once all those effects were accounted for, the evidence for primordial gravitational waves was "no longer robust," Puget said.

The full study with all the technical details, titled "A Joint Analysis of BICEP2/Keck Array and Planck Data," was submitted for publication in Physical Review Letters, ESA and NSF said. A preprint version of the paper was made available via the BICEPKeck.org website on Friday.

Inflation theory still lives

The latest twist doesn't mean that inflationary theory is disproven. If that were the case, the physics world would be thrown into a tizzy. However, the findings do set a new upper limit on the amount of gravitational waves caused by inflation — which could boost some variants of the theory while knocking down others.

Last week, British physicist Stephen Hawking said he was working on a "new theory of the origin of the universe" that predicts primordial gravitational waves should pervade the entire universe. Presumably, the latest findings will have an effect on his work.

"The gravitational wave signal could still be there, and the search is definitely on," Brendan Crill, a physicist at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory who is a member of the Planck and BICEP2 teams, said in Friday's update. Enhanced observations of the cosmic microwave background radiation are expected to come from the Keck Array as well as a new BICEP3 telescope.

Caltech theoretical physicist Sean Carroll told NBC News that "the bottom line is simply that the current data don't say much about inflation, one way or another."

"The original BICEP2 detection seems to have been incorrect, but it was at a surprisingly high amplitude, so having it go away just sends us back to where we were a year ago, which is fine," he said in an email. "I am not at all sure that we will someday see evidence for inflation, but I'm certainly open to the possibility."

Update for 3:05 p.m. ET Jan. 30: Physicist Matt Strassler, a visiting scholar at Harvard, told NBC News that he hoped someday to see evidence either for or against inflation, but emphasized that "I don't think I should presuppose what we might discover."

"It's also worth mentioning that it is fairly common for the first claim of a discovery to not hold up under further scrutiny," Strassler said in an email. "That's part of why we always want to see confirmation from a different experiment before we accept such claims. It's disappointing this discovery claim was premature, but it's not particularly unusual. Doing science at the forefront of knowledge is hard."

© Copyright Original Source

[seer]

Source: http://www.nbcnews.com/science/space/physicists-say-dust-over-big-bang-gravity-waves-has-fizzled-n296642

Physicists Say a Dust-Up Over Big Bang Gravity Waves Has Fizzled Out

The cat's out of the bag

On Thursday, a French-language update from members of the Planck team reported that the joint Planck/BICEP2 analysis was complete, and had drawn upon observations from the Keck Array as well. "There remains an excess, but it is far too low to be considered a detection and could be the result of simple variations associated with experimental noise," the report said.

That update was quickly taken off the Web, but the cat was out of the bag. On Friday, ESA revealed more of the details in a report aimed at a lay audience. The National Science Foundation followed with a similar news release.

ESA and NSF said the analysis found a large contribution to the polarization results from galactic dust, and a much smaller contribution from another source — deflections in the light waves that were induced by the cosmic web of massive structures that permeate the universe. This effect is known as gravitational lensing.

Once all those effects were accounted for, the evidence for primordial gravitational waves was "no longer robust," Puget said.

The full study with all the technical details, titled "A Joint Analysis of BICEP2/Keck Array and Planck Data," was submitted for publication in Physical Review Letters, ESA and NSF said. A preprint version of the paper was made available via the BICEPKeck.org website on Friday.

Inflation theory still lives

The latest twist doesn't mean that inflationary theory is disproven. If that were the case, the physics world would be thrown into a tizzy. However, the findings do set a new upper limit on the amount of gravitational waves caused by inflation — which could boost some variants of the theory while knocking down others.

Last week, British physicist Stephen Hawking said he was working on a "new theory of the origin of the universe" that predicts primordial gravitational waves should pervade the entire universe. Presumably, the latest findings will have an effect on his work.

"The gravitational wave signal could still be there, and the search is definitely on," Brendan Crill, a physicist at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory who is a member of the Planck and BICEP2 teams, said in Friday's update. Enhanced observations of the cosmic microwave background radiation are expected to come from the Keck Array as well as a new BICEP3 telescope.

Caltech theoretical physicist Sean Carroll told NBC News that "the bottom line is simply that the current data don't say much about inflation, one way or another."

"The original BICEP2 detection seems to have been incorrect, but it was at a surprisingly high amplitude, so having it go away just sends us back to where we were a year ago, which is fine," he said in an email. "I am not at all sure that we will someday see evidence for inflation, but I'm certainly open to the possibility."

Update for 3:05 p.m. ET Jan. 30: Physicist Matt Strassler, a visiting scholar at Harvard, told NBC News that he hoped someday to see evidence either for or against inflation, but emphasized that "I don't think I should presuppose what we might discover."

"It's also worth mentioning that it is fairly common for the first claim of a discovery to not hold up under further scrutiny," Strassler said in an email. "That's part of why we always want to see confirmation from a different experiment before we accept such claims. It's disappointing this discovery claim was premature, but it's not particularly unusual. Doing science at the forefront of knowledge is hard."

© Copyright Original Source

So basically, so far, there is zero evidence for the Inflation theory.

[shunyadragon]

So basically, so far, there is zero evidence for the Inflation theory.

No, please reread the article referenced.

[seer]

No, please reread the article referenced.

I did. And let me quote:

Caltech theoretical physicist Sean Carroll told NBC News that "the bottom line is simply that the current data don't say much about inflation, one way or another."

So there is no evidence for inflation.

[shunyadragon]

I did. And let me quote:



So there is no evidence for inflation.

What you quoted does not say there is no evidence for inflation. As usual you did not read the article. This article does not deal with all evidence for or against the various possible models on inflationary universe. The current data referred to in the article referred only to the gravitational wave evidence.

Source: http://www.nbcnews.com/science/space/physicists-say-dust-over-big-bang-gravity-waves-has-fizzled-n296642

The latest twist doesn't mean that inflationary theory is disproven. If that were the case, the physics world would be thrown into a tizzy. However, the findings do set a new upper limit on the amount of gravitational waves caused by inflation — which could boost some variants of the theory while knocking down others.

© Copyright Original Source

[seer]

What you quoted does not say there is no evidence for inflation. As usual you did not read the article. This article does not deal with all evidence for or against the various possible models on inflationary universe

Source: http://www.nbcnews.com/science/space/physicists-say-dust-over-big-bang-gravity-waves-has-fizzled-n296642

The latest twist doesn't mean that inflationary theory is disproven. If that were the case, the physics world would be thrown into a tizzy. However, the findings do set a new upper limit on the amount of gravitational waves caused by inflation — which could boost some variants of the theory while knocking down others.

© Copyright Original Source

Well yes Shuny, since I have been following this as closely, if not closer than you, the actual physical evidence for inflation they were looking for was gravitational waves. That did not pan out. If you want to point to some actual physical evidence for inflation please reference it. But as Carroll said "the bottom line is simply that the current data don't say much about inflation, one way or another."

So I did not say that there was evidence against inflation, just that there is no evidence for inflation. If you think there is, again please post it - I will be waiting...

[shunyadragon]

Well yes Shuny, since I have been following this as closely, if not closer than you, the actual physical evidence for inflation they were looking for was gravitational waves. That did not pan out. If you want to point to some actual physical evidence for inflation please reference it. But as Carroll said "the bottom line is simply that the current data don't say much about inflation, one way or another."

So I did not say that there was evidence against inflation, just that there is no evidence for inflation. If you think there is, again please post it - I will be waiting...

You will be waiting for a very long time, unless you are willing to do your own homework. There are many variants of models for the origins of our universe. This is only one research project that concludes the present evidence for gravitational waves that would have support some models is too limited to be considered evidence, one way or another. There are many possible models of the history and origins of our universe. There are many sources of evidence for expansion of our universe.

This research only weakens the possibility of some models. From the article; "the findings do set a new upper limit on the amount of gravitational waves caused by inflation — which could boost some variants of the theory while knocking down others."

Do your homework if you want to know. In the past you have been combative and negative about science in general. What's you point here?

[seer]

You will be waiting for a very long time, unless you are willing to do your own homework. There are many variants of models for the origins of our universe. This is only one research project that concludes the present evidence for gravitational waves that would have support some models is too limited to be considered evidence, one way or another. There are many possible models of the history and origins of our universe. There are many sources of evidence for expansion of our universe.

This research only weakens the possibility of some models. From the article; "the findings do set a new upper limit on the amount of gravitational waves caused by inflation — which could boost some variants of the theory while knocking down others."

Do your homework if you want to know. In the past you have been combative and negative about science in general. What's you point here?

No Shuny, I'm waiting for actual physical evidence for inflation. Theories are all very well but we need correct predictions and actual physical evidence to confirm. Again to quote Carroll who knows this subject better than you or I "the bottom line is simply that the current data don't say much about inflation, one way or another." So there is no actual evidence for inflation. But you are free to believe what you will.

[shunyadragon]

No Shuny, I'm waiting for actual physical evidence for inflation. Theories are all very well but we need correct predictions and actual physical evidence to confirm. Again to quote Carroll who knows this subject better than you or I "the bottom line is simply that the current data don't say much about inflation, one way or another." So there is no actual evidence for inflation. But you are free to believe what you will.

No seer, this is the same combative, negative view toward science you have always presented since you have been on Tweb. You reject science selectively to support your world view, and cling to a archaic Newtonian view of what 'actual physical evidence' is. This is your own 'Hamster wheel' act.

[robrecht]

No seer, this is the same combative, negative view toward science you have always presented since you have been on Tweb. You reject science selectively to support your world view, and cling to a archaic Newtonian view of what 'actual physical evidence' is. This is your own 'Hamster wheel' act.

Please refrain from negative personal characterizations in this thread. It does not advance genuine discussion.

[shunyadragon]

Please refrain from negative personal characterizations in this thread. It does not advance genuine discussion.

What I said is true, and I will easily repeat it a thousand times.

[robrecht]

What I said is true, and I will easily repeat it a thousand times.

Not in my thread.

[shunyadragon]

Not in my thread.

Thread is dead anyway. The final word on this research is in.

[robrecht]

Thread is dead anyway. The final word on this research is in.

Depends on how limited you want to view this 'research'. Hawking thinks that this particular observation might still be confirmed. Science rarely issues the final word, not least of which on a subject as broad and far reaching as origins of the universe.

[JimL]

Sometimes I pretend to understand cosmology because it is so much fun, but there are people here who really do understand some of this and I love to listen in on the conversations and ask an occasional question to try and understand something a little better. We're all part of an amazing universe and it boggles my mind that some people are able to begin to contemplate the beginning of our universe scientifically.

This is only a popular account of what may be the beginnings of evidence for an Inflationary Big Bang. Possibly more evidence on the horizon. Enjoy!

The cause, the exact details, aren't understood, but I would say that the fact that the universe is expanding, that it is now some 14 billion light years across and growing is evidence of a big bang?