Announcement
Collapse
Natural Science 301 Guidelines
This is an open forum area for all members for discussions on all issues of science and origins. This area will and does get volatile at times, but we ask that it be kept to a dull roar, and moderators will intervene to keep the peace if necessary. This means obvious trolling and flaming that becomes a problem will be dealt with, and you might find yourself in the doghouse.
As usual, Tweb rules apply. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
As usual, Tweb rules apply. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less
Günter Bechly issues a challenge
Collapse
X
-
Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
-
Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostI could have stated that better, "let's say what the evolutionists themselves say"...
Blessings,
Lee
You need to think your responses through.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
-
Originally posted by Roy View PostWe do. Hawaiian silverswords are an example of a living species radiating after arriving on a distant island.
honeycreepers.jpg
From a single ancestor species they adapted to exploit different niches, evolving into nectar sippers, seed eaters,
tree bark foragers, etc. -- as well as several bill shapes not found in any other birds anywhere else.
They are different enough from other Honeycreepers that it wasn't until the advent of molecular phylogenetic techniques that they were able to establish the connection.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
-
Originally posted by rogue06 View PostIs this guy totally unaware
If you're going to issue a challenge like this, you have to provide a clear definition of "body plan" and an objective way of measuring it. Otherwise, any potential counter example can be subject to hand waving, as someone else had suggested. Without those, this is just a pseudoscientific bit of trolling."Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."
Comment
-
Originally posted by TheLurch View PostHaving read this thread, I'm pretty sure the answer is "yes".
If you're going to issue a challenge like this, you have to provide a clear definition of "body plan" and an objective way of measuring it. Otherwise, any potential counter example can be subject to hand waving, as someone else had suggested. Without those, this is just a pseudoscientific bit of trolling.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
-
Originally posted by rogue06 View PostNice seeing you around these parts again."Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."
Comment
-
Originally posted by rogue06 View PostIf you use Hawaii, then the Honeycreeper makes for a good example. From a single ancestor, they evolved from a rosefinch-like bird some 5.7 to 7.2 mya into more than 50 honeycreeper species spanning an incredible variety of bill shapes and feeding behaviors.
honeycreepers.jpg
From a single ancestor species they adapted to exploit different niches, evolving into nectar sippers, seed eaters,
tree bark foragers, etc. -- as well as several bill shapes not found in any other birds anywhere else.
They are different enough from other Honeycreepers that it wasn't until the advent of molecular phylogenetic techniques that they were able to establish the connection.
Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
Comment
-
Originally posted by Roy View PostAn excellent example. The one bottom left looks more like a flycatcher than a nectar feeder.
NEVILLE1.jpg
1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Comment
-
Originally posted by Roy View PostWe do. Hawaiian silverswords are an example of a living species radiating after arriving on a distant island.
Originally posted by RoyBechly is demanding a new body plan when his own example doesn't include one.
Blessings,
Lee"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
Comment
-
Originally posted by rogue06 View PostThey are different enough from other Honeycreepers that it wasn't until the advent of molecular phylogenetic techniques that they were able to establish the connection.
Blessings,
Lee
"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
Comment
-
Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostBut I think "new body plan" implies more than just a new bill shape. "Worm to trilobite" is along the lines of what Bechly is thinking.
New body plans are the product of many, many individual changes. If we're looking for something like that happening now, then we'd just see a small number of changes that wouldn't obviously be part of a transition towards anything in particular.
But again, if he actually wanted an answer, he'd define the measure he wants to see. Instead, he's just repeating "new body plans" without defining now to identify one. So, clearly, he's not interested in getting an answer."Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."
Comment
-
Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostBut I think "new body plan" implies more than just a new bill shape. "Worm to trilobite" is along the lines of what Bechly is thinking.
Blessings,
Lee
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
-
Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostBut I think "new body plan" implies more than just a new bill shape. "Worm to trilobite" is along the lines of what Bechly is thinking.
Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
- 1 like
Comment
-
Originally posted by Roy View PostPakicetus to Basilosaurus is not along the lines of worm to trilobite. So if that's what Bechly is thinking, he's once again failing his own challenge.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
-
Originally posted by rogue06 View PostIt's become pretty obvious that Bechly's "challenge" is of the same type as those that Kent Hovind used to issue -- a complete fraud.
If Lee or Bechly thought the implications of gradualism at all, they'd realize that, and then realize that this is a really stupid argument to be making.
Of course, Bechly may realize this, and make the argument anyway, simply because they know that people who want to believe evolution has problems will cheer any argument, regardless of its quality (or, in this case, complete absence of quality)."Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."
Comment
Related Threads
Collapse
Topics | Statistics | Last Post | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-18-2024, 12:15 PM
|
48 responses
135 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by Sparko
03-20-2024, 09:13 AM
|
||
Started by Sparko, 03-07-2024, 08:52 AM
|
16 responses
74 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by shunyadragon
03-08-2024, 03:12 PM
|
||
Started by rogue06, 02-28-2024, 11:06 AM
|
6 responses
48 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by shunyadragon
03-08-2024, 03:25 PM
|
Comment