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Günter Bechly issues a challenge

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Roy View Post
    There are no new body plans. Pakicetus and Basilosaurus are both vertebrates. They have the same body plan.

    Bechly's challenge is bogus.
    But Bechly is referring to the differences, which are substantial, not the similarities.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Roy View Post
      And where Dory has just poked his head above the parapet, Sedgwickesquely.

      And are you the same person as Roy over at Peaceful Science? You have the same avatar picture, even.

      Blessings,
      Lee
      "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
        Well, they're still more that 5-10 million years apart.


        To quote from the opening post: "To be clear, of course no evolutionist ever claimed that Pakicetus was the actual ancestor of Basilosaurus. It rather represented a side branch of the cetacean stem group. But what evolutionists definitely do imply is that the stem species was roughly similar in body plan to Raoellidae and Pakicetidae. Therefore, this challenge is absolutely valid and reasonable."

        Blessings,
        Lee
        Repeating this over and over does not make it relevant to the science of evolution. It is simply a bogus unethical non-science argument based on a religious agenda,
        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

        go with the flow the river knows . . .

        Frank

        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post



          To quote from the opening post: "To be clear, of course no evolutionist ever claimed that Pakicetus was the actual ancestor of Basilosaurus. It rather represented a side branch of the cetacean stem group. But what evolutionists definitely do imply is that the stem species was roughly similar in body plan to Raoellidae and Pakicetidae. Therefore, this challenge is absolutely valid and reasonable."

          Blessings,
          Lee
          Wait. What? Pakicetus have a "roughly similar body plan to" Pakicetidae ... and that is seen as a problem when Pakicetus is a Pakicetidae?

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            Wait. What? Pakicetus have a "roughly similar body plan to" Pakicetidae ... and that is seen as a problem when Pakicetus is a Pakicetidae?
            I'm not sure what your question is, what problem do you mean?

            Blessings,
            Lee
            "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
              I'm not sure what your question is, what problem do you mean?

              Blessings,
              Lee
              In the OP there is the statement

              "But what evolutionists definitely do imply is that the stem species was roughly similar in body plan to Raoellidae and Pakicetidae."


              But the stem species is Pakicetus.

              So the sentence could read

              "But what evolutionists definitely do imply is that Pakicetus was roughly similar in body plan to Raoellidae and Pakicetidae."


              So what is the issue with Pakicetus having a "roughly similar" body plan as Pakicetidae?

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                So what is the issue with Pakicetus having a "roughly similar" body plan as Pakicetidae?
                There is no issue that I can see, Bechly's challenge depends on this similarity.

                Blessings,
                Lee
                "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                  There is no issue that I can see, Bechly's challenge depends on this similarity.

                  Blessings,
                  Lee
                  Read it again. He says that is "what evolutionists definitely do imply," as if it were in error.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    Read it again. He says that is "what evolutionists definitely do imply," as if it were in error.
                    No, he's using that to make his argument. He's saying "suppose this is true..."

                    Blessings,
                    Lee
                    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                      No, he's using that to make his argument. He's saying "suppose this is true..."

                      Blessings,
                      Lee
                      You really think he is saying that "suppose this is true" that Pakicetus have a "roughly similar" body plan as Pakicetidae? Seriously?

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        You really think he is saying that "suppose this is true" that Pakicetus have a "roughly similar" body plan as Pakicetidae?
                        I could have stated that better, "let's say what the evolutionists themselves say"...

                        Blessings,
                        Lee
                        "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                          I could have stated that better, "let's say what the evolutionists themselves say"...

                          Blessings,
                          Lee
                          Virtually over 95%+ of all scientist in the fields related to evolution including all the major scientific journals and universities of the world 'say' that the physical verified evidence' overwhelmingly supports the natural evolution of all lifr on earth.

                          Where dies that leave the fool Günter Bechly? Ther is no meaningful challenge from any ID fringe pseudo-science ID advocates,
                          Last edited by shunyadragon; 05-17-2022, 08:51 PM.
                          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                          go with the flow the river knows . . .

                          Frank

                          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                            All right, then, so why don't we see such changes in living species? Come to think of it, why don't we see such changes in species that became geographically separated, or that arrived on a distant island? Open niches were all around them, in many instances.
                            We do. Hawaiian silverswords are an example of a living species radiating after arriving on a distant island.

                            Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                            mikewhitney: What if the speed of light changed when light is passing through water? ... I have 3 semesters of college Physics.

                            Mountain Man: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                            Mountain Man on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                            Sparko: Even the deists like Jefferson believed in the Christian God, ...

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                              I'm afraid that reference sailed well above my head.
                              Sedgewick was the US Civil war general whose last recorded words were "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance."
                              Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                              mikewhitney: What if the speed of light changed when light is passing through water? ... I have 3 semesters of college Physics.

                              Mountain Man: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                              Mountain Man on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                              Sparko: Even the deists like Jefferson believed in the Christian God, ...

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                                There are no new body plans. Pakicetus and Basilosaurus are both vertebrates. They have the same body plan.

                                Bechly's challenge is bogus.
                                But Bechly is referring to the differences, which are substantial, not the similarities.
                                Bechly is demanding a new body plan when his own example doesn't include one.

                                Bechly's challenge is bogus.

                                Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                                mikewhitney: What if the speed of light changed when light is passing through water? ... I have 3 semesters of college Physics.

                                Mountain Man: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                                Mountain Man on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                                Sparko: Even the deists like Jefferson believed in the Christian God, ...

                                Comment

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