This has been controversial in the past on Tweb, I believe more research is revealing a history of regional and racial differences in the resistance to Covid-19.
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Natural genetic resistence to Covid-19
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Natural genetic resistence to Covid-19
Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.Tags: None
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostThis has been controversial in the past on Tweb, I believe more research is revealing a history of regional and racial differences in the resistance to Covid-19.
Secondly, when you brought it up, you were arguing that people from East Asia were more likely to have genetic factors that provided resistance. Now you're saying you're right because they may have found one that confers susceptibility?"Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."
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Originally posted by TheLurch View PostFor starters, until you can define quantitatively how to measure race, it's not a scientific concept.
Secondly, when you brought it up, you were arguing that people from East Asia were more likely to have genetic factors that provided resistance. Now you're saying you're right because they may have found one that confers susceptibility?
You apparently did not understand the references and/or not willing to respond, More to follow . . .Last edited by shunyadragon; 01-07-2022, 08:47 PM.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
Again and again not a coherent response.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Last edited by shunyadragon; 01-08-2022, 10:55 PM.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
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Originally posted by TheLurch View PostFor starters, until you can define quantitatively how to measure race, it's not a scientific concept.
Secondly, when you brought it up, you were arguing that people from East Asia were more likely to have genetic factors that provided resistance. Now you're saying you're right because they may have found one that confers susceptibility?
First, references provided in this thread together in the previous thread do support that people of Southeast are indeed likely more resistant to Covid-19. Part of the foundation evidence for this is rate of infection, and fatalities is lowest in Southeast Asia.and lower in Asia in general than the rest of the world. This correlates well with the likely origin of Covid-19 and related historical viruses like the previous SARS originating from animals of Southeast Asia and South China..
More to follow . . .Last edited by shunyadragon; 01-10-2022, 08:21 AM.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostYou may want to re-read it.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
Watching Shuny take on the Lurch is... um.... painful.
Can you provide any references that refute my position?
The silence is deafeningLast edited by shunyadragon; 01-10-2022, 08:45 AM.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
Failure to respond coherently to the numerous references is indeed painful, in particular the reference that demonstrates a generic resistance to Covid-19 in Southeast Asia, and the reference that demonstrates that descendants pf European/Neanderthals are genetically more susceptible to infection by Covid=19.
Let's look at the abstract of the first paper you linked in this thread - specifically the last sentence of it. Now, I realize reading all the way to the last sentence of a paragraph can be hard for some people, but there's often valuable information there, so it's worth your time to struggle through. To save on the pain, I'll just quote it here:
"Here we show that the risk is conferred by a genomic segment of around 50 kilobases in size that is inherited from Neanderthals and is carried by around 50% of people in south Asia and around 16% of people in Europe."
What does that tell us? Several genomic studies have identified only a single risk factor for severe COVID. The genomic region is most commonly seen in Asian populations. In other words, it indicates that, if we only consider genetic risks, people originating from south Asia are at highest risk of severe COVID. You are using that as evidence to support your claim that risk is "lower in Asia in general than the rest of the world".
My silence was because your own reference refuted your argument, and even after I pointed it out, you didn't seem capable of grasping it. If there's a coherence problem here, that's it."Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."
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Originally posted by TheLurch View PostTrying to define away anything you don't want to hear as "not coherent" isn't an argument. Nor is your own reading comprehension failure evidence.
Let's look at the abstract of the first paper you linked in this thread - specifically the last sentence of it. Now, I realize reading all the way to the last sentence of a paragraph can be hard for some people, but there's often valuable information there, so it's worth your time to struggle through. To save on the pain, I'll just quote it here:
"Here we show that the risk is conferred by a genomic segment of around 50 kilobases in size that is inherited from Neanderthals and is carried by around 50% of people in south Asia and around 16% of people in Europe."
What does that tell us? Several genomic studies have identified only a single risk factor for severe COVID. The genomic region is most commonly seen in Asian populations. In other words, it indicates that, if we only consider genetic risks, people originating from south Asia are at highest risk of severe COVID. You are using that as evidence to support your claim that risk is "lower in Asia in general than the rest of the world".
My silence was because your own reference refuted your argument, and even after I pointed it out, you didn't seem capable of grasping it. If there's a coherence problem here, that's it.
From the reference: Elusive genetic mechanisms might be operative, as a multitude of genetic factors are widely shared between the SE Asian populations, such as the more than 60 different thalassemia syndromes (principally dominated by the HbE trait) We posit that the evolutionary protective effect of the HbE and other thalassemic variants against malaria and the dengue virus may extend its advantage to resistance to COVID-19 infection, as HbE heterozygote population prevalence appears to be pos itively correlated with immunity to COVID-19. Host immune system modulations induce antiviral interferon responses and alter structural protein integrity, thereby inhibiting cellular access and viral replication. These changes are possibly engendered by HbE carrier miRNAs. Proving this hypothesis is important, as it may shed light on the mechanism of viral resistance and lead to novel antiviral treatments. This development can thus guide decision-making and action to prevent COVID-19 infection.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
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A little note on the use of the term "race" vs. the concept of ethnic groups and regional populations. It's easy to dismiss this as "there go those liberal scientists again, avoiding a term just because it's not PC". But the term has always been poorly defined, and has been increasingly difficult to square with modern molecular evidence.
In Darwin's time, "race" seemed to imply something that might now be termed a subspecies - a population within a species that had some distinct identifying characteristics. The problem was that those identifying characteristics were typically based on physical appearance, and we now know that's often a poor stand in for the underlying genetics. A species that all looks identical to us can have multiple populations all with DNA differences that are larger than we typically see between clearly distinct species. And if we look at the DNA of what we thought were distinct subspecies, we can often find evidence of significant gene flow between them.
This gets especially problematic when it comes to humans. Humanity originated in Africa, and has had the most time to develop distinct populations there; yet historically, we've tended to lump all of them together as "Black" based on appearance. But appearance hides the genetics of Africa, which are incredibly complicated. There are some populations that have remained largely genetically isolated, and might qualify as a "race" based on seemingly forming a distinctive branch of our human family tree. But others are most certainly not. East Africans have had a lot of intermixing with Middle Eastern populations. Most of Central and Southern Africa has had its genetic completely churned up by the Bantu Expansion. And there's a tendency to lump African Americans in that, even though the population largely originated only from a few regions of West Africa, and then saw significant European DNA introduced.
Similarly, Native American populations are the products of two distinct migrations into North America (the Inuit arrived separately), and further back, are a mixture of East Asian populations and a now lost population with a strong similarity to Eurasian groups. The Pacific islands have at least three distinct populations present, and the degree of mixture among them varies between island groups. Etc. etc.
So it doesn't make any sense scientifically to lump all these different populations into large categories for any sort of scientific analysis, which is why race has mostly fallen out of favor, despite the fact that the societies science operates in continue to view it as very significant. (This has lead to some awkward conversations where young scientists are convinced that race is a real thing, but flounder when asked to define it). Instead, most studies tend to focus on much smaller populations that we know have a strong genetic similarity, and can actually define how often they may have interbred with other populations."Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
Nothing refuted and still no responseon your part that is meaningful.
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostFrom the reference: Elusive genetic mechanisms might be operative, as a multitude of genetic factors are widely shared between the SE Asian populations, such as the more than 60 different thalassemia syndromes (principally dominated by the HbE trait) We posit that the evolutionary protective effect of the HbE and other thalassemic variants against malaria and the dengue virus may extend its advantage to resistance to COVID-19 infection, as HbE heterozygote population prevalence appears to be pos itively correlated with immunity to COVID-19. Host immune system modulations induce antiviral interferon responses and alter structural protein integrity, thereby inhibiting cellular access and viral replication. These changes are possibly engendered by HbE carrier miRNAs. Proving this hypothesis is important, as it may shed light on the mechanism of viral resistance and lead to novel antiviral treatments. This development can thus guide decision-making and action to prevent COVID-19 infection.
Is the correlation actually informative? They present no evidence that it is other than a single graph. But let's take a moment to look more carefully at that graph. It's got a good selection of Southeast Asian countries and then... random stuff. There are absolutely no African populations, even though a number of countries in that region, most notably South Africa, have excellent public health monitoring and solid COVID data. That absence is significant because it's positing that the protective effect of thalassemias could be mediated by the same properties that confer malarial resistance.
In sharp contrast to South Africa, it's widely recognized that India's public health services could not get reliable numbers on the pandemic, so their official counts should not be trusted. Yet that is on the graph. All of South America is represented by Brazil, where the dynamics of the pandemic were largely defined by government hostility towards public health measures, not any sort of genetic influence. There's a number of countries that did have a strong public health response - Taiwan, Hong Kong - that clearly had low numbers of COVID cases accordingly.
Overall, the graph that is central to the whole argument is a random mix of stuff and doesn't seem to be evidence of anything.
I look forward to you failing to engage with any of that information.
"Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."
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Originally posted by TheLurch View PostYou can repeat that all you want; it's clear that other people here have sufficient reading comprehension to understand what I'm saying. If everyone but you gets it, then it's a fair indication that the problem is yours.
Yeah, that second reference is garbage. In its entirety, it's a single correlation and boatloads of speculation built on it.
Is the correlation actually informative? They present no evidence that it is other than a single graph. But let's take a moment to look more carefully at that graph. It's got a good selection of Southeast Asian countries and then... random stuff. There are absolutely no African populations, even though a number of countries in that region, most notably South Africa, have excellent public health monitoring and solid COVID data. That absence is significant because it's positing that the protective effect of thalassemias could be mediated by the same properties that confer malarial resistance.
In sharp contrast to South Africa, it's widely recognized that India's public health services could not get reliable numbers on the pandemic, so their official counts should not be trusted. Yet that is on the graph. All of South America is represented by Brazil, where the dynamics of the pandemic were largely defined by government hostility towards public health measures, not any sort of genetic influence. There's a number of countries that did have a strong public health response - Taiwan, Hong Kong - that clearly had low numbers of COVID cases accordingly.
Overall, the graph that is central to the whole argument is a random mix of stuff and doesn't seem to be evidence of anything.
I look forward to you failing to engage with any of that information.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
Failure to respond coherently.
Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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