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Natural genetic resistence to Covid-19

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  • #31
    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
    I believe further research will support my view.
    I'd love to see you address the fact that the research you've cited contradicts some of your claims.

    In any case, I'm not arguing that it's impossible there are regional differences in immune responses. Genomic data indicates that the two things that have had the strongest influence on human evolution are diet and disease. It's entirely possible some of the existing immune differences will influence the response to coronaviruses (the Nature paper you've brought into this discussion seems to have been an example of this).

    But the lineages that infect humans are all less than 5,000 years old. They appear to have had multiple geographic origins. Animal coronaviruses are found in species that are everywhere that humans are, like mice and domesticated animals. I just don't see any reason to suspect that these viruses have been regional enough to drive regional evolution.
    "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
      I'd love to see you address the fact that the research you've cited contradicts some of your claims.
      No.

      In any case, I'm not arguing that it's impossible there are regional differences in immune responses. Genomic data indicates that the two things that have had the strongest influence on human evolution are diet and disease. It's entirely possible some of the existing immune differences will influence the response to coronaviruses (the Nature paper you've brought into this discussion seems to have been an example of this).

      But the lineages that infect humans are all less than 5,000 years old. They appear to have had multiple geographic origins. Animal coronaviruses are found in species that are everywhere that humans are, like mice and domesticated animals. I just don't see any reason to suspect that these viruses have been regional enough to drive regional evolution.
      Disagree. The SARS viruses associated with Covid-19 do have a regional evolution in China and Southeast Asia.

      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

      go with the flow the river knows . . .

      Frank

      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

        No.
        Well, if you're not going to address that, then it's not much of a discussion, is it?

        Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
        Disagree. The SARS viruses associated with Covid-19 do have a regional evolution in China and Southeast Asia.
        Well, then by all means present evidence that this is the case?
        "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
          Well, if you're not going to address that, then it's not much of a discussion, is it?


          Well, then by all means present evidence that this is the case?
          One thing you have done is not do your own homework and just stonewall without a constructive dialogue. I will presen references, but you should be a better scientist that does not need to be spoon fed.
          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

          go with the flow the river knows . . .

          Frank

          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

          Comment


          • #35
            The following source describes the origin and evolution of viruses related to COVID-19 in animals and transmission to humans in South China and Southeast Asia.This occurs in no other region of the world. These viruses are endemic to this region only. Limited citation provided the article is a bit long,

            Source: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-17687-3



            Origin and cross-species transmission of bat coronaviruses in China


            A growing body of research has identified bats as the evolutionary sources of SARS—and Middle East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS)—CoVs13,14,24,25,26, and as the source of progenitors for the human CoVs, NL63 and 229E27,28. The emergence of SARS-CoV-2 further underscores the importance of bat-origin CoVs to global health, and understanding their origin and cross-species transmission is a high priority for pandemic preparedness20,29. Bats harbor the largest diversity of CoVs among mammals, and two CoV genera, α- and β-CoVs have been widely detected in bats from most regions of the world30,31. Bat-CoV diversity seems to be correlated with host taxonomic diversity globally, with the highest CoV diversity being found in areas with the highest bat species richness32. Host switching of viruses over evolutionary time is an important mechanism driving the evolution of bat-CoVs in nature and appears to vary geographically32,33. However, detailed analyses of host switching have been hampered by incomplete or opportunistic sampling, typically with relatively low numbers of viral sequences from any given region34.

            China has a rich bat fauna, with more than 100 described bat species and several endemic species representing both the Palearctic and Indo-Malay regions35. Its situation at the crossroads of two zoogeographic regions heightens China’s potential to harbor a unique and distinctive CoV diversity. Since the emergence of SARS-CoV in 2002, China has been the focus of an intense viral surveillance and a large number of diverse bat-CoVs have been discovered in the region36,37,38,39,40,41,42,43,44. However, the macroevolution of CoVs in their bat hosts in China and their cross-species transmission dynamics remain poorly understood.

            In this study, we analyze an extensive field-collected dataset of bat-CoV sequences from across China. We use a phylogeographic Bayesian statistical framework to reconstruct virus transmission history between different bat host species and virus spatial spread over evolutionary time. Our objectives are to compare the macroevolutionary patterns of α- and β-CoVs and identify the hosts and geographical regions that act as centers of evolutionary diversification for bat-CoVs in China. These analyses aim to improve our understanding of how CoVs evolve, diversify, circulate among, and transmit between bat families and genera to help identify bat hosts and regions where the risk of CoV spillover is the highest.

            © Copyright Original Source




            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

            go with the flow the river knows . . .

            Frank

            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              Your title:

              The major genetic risk factor for severe COVID-19 is inherited from Neanderthals

              The paper is talking about genes inherited that cause a greater RISK for severe COVID. And it says that this gene is more prevalent in Asians.

              That doesn't say that Asians have a LOWER risk for severe Covid, It says they have a MAJOR (Higher) risk for severe COVID.

              How do you explain that it proves they have a higher resistance to covid?
              You missed the primary thrust of this thread. It is that there are genetic factors in the severity of COVID-19. The resistance of COVID-19 in the Orient is due to the generations of human evolution in the region that developed resistance to COVID-19 The Viruses related to COVID-1eolved in animals populations in that region only to a great degree isolated from the other regions.

              The relationship between Small Pox and the human host follows a similar relationship. Small Pox was an Asia Eurasia virus until the Europeans exposed it to the American native populations without evolved resistance to Small Pox with devastating results.

              In the previous reference the describe finding antibodies in the human populations around bat caves in South China that indicate a historical exposure by humans to viruses related to COVID-19..
              Last edited by shunyadragon; 01-28-2022, 07:34 AM.
              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

              go with the flow the river knows . . .

              Frank

              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                You missed the primary thrust of this thread. It is that there are genetic factors in the severity of COVID-19. The resistance of COVID-19 in the Orient is due to the generations of human evolution in the region that developed resistance to COVID-19 The Viruses related to COVID-1eolved in animals populations in that region only to a great degree isolated from the other regions.

                The relationship between Small Pox and the human host follows a similar relationship. Small Pox was an Asia Eurasia virus until the Europeans exposed it to the American native populations without evolved resistance to Small Pox with devastating results.

                In the previous reference the describe finding antibodies in the human populations around bat caves in South China that indicate a historical exposure by humans to viruses related to COVID-19..
                Then why did you use a paper that claims the exact opposite (that Asians have a higher risk for COVID because of Neanderthal genes) as support for your claim above?

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                  The following source describes the origin and evolution of viruses related to COVID-19 in animals and transmission to humans in South China and Southeast Asia.This occurs in no other region of the world. These viruses are endemic to this region only. Limited citation provided the article is a bit long,
                  The bolded part of that statement is false, given that MERS originated in the mideast. And in fact the study itself only looked at bats in China, so cannot be used to draw conclusions about the rest of the world. However, I will note that it:
                  A) says "two CoV genera, α- and β-CoVs have been widely detected in bats from most regions of the world"
                  B) notes that separate studies are examining the same issue in Europe and Africa.

                  So, beyond the fact that you made a blatantly false statement, there are reasons in your reference to think your general argument is wrong.
                  "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
                    The bolded part of that statement is false, given that MERS originated in the mideast. And in fact the study itself only looked at bats in China, so cannot be used to draw conclusions about the rest of the world. However, I will note that it:
                    A) says "two CoV genera, α- and β-CoVs have been widely detected in bats from most regions of the world"
                    B) notes that separate studies are examining the same issue in Europe and Africa.

                    So, beyond the fact that you made a blatantly false statement, there are reasons in your reference to think your general argument is wrong.
                    MERS IS NOT a part of the group of viruses directly related to the viruses endemic to the viruses related to COVID-19 that evolved in the animal populations South China and Southeast Asia referred to in the reference. he article referenced did refer to the separate related MERS viruses of the Middle East. Yes if you go to the very broad related viruses they may be found world wide.

                    \Your making blatantly false unethical selective citations to justify your agenda.
                    Last edited by shunyadragon; 01-28-2022, 11:38 AM.
                    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                    go with the flow the river knows . . .

                    Frank

                    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                      MERS IS NOT a part of the group of viruses directly related to the viruses endemic to the viruses related to COVID-19 referred to in the reference..
                      They are broadly sampling coronaviruses. MERS is a coronavirus.

                      You have no idea what you're talking about.
                      "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
                        They are broadly sampling coronaviruses. MERS is a coronavirus.

                        You have no idea what you're talking about.
                        . . . but NOT related directly to the viruses that evolved in the populations of the animals in South China and Southeast Asia that resulted in COVID-19.

                        The fact that a separate group of Coronaviruses evolved in the Middle East further justifies my argument for the regional evolution of viruses in different part of the world.
                        Last edited by shunyadragon; 01-28-2022, 11:43 AM.
                        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                        go with the flow the river knows . . .

                        Frank

                        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          So, basically, even though MERS is closely related to both SARS viruses, you're defining it as different? Is there a biological basis for that definition?

                          For those who don't follow viral evolution, this image shows how closely SARS and MERS viruses cluster within the coronavirus evolutionary tree.
                          gr1_lrg.jpg
                          (Taken from https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pm...es/PMC7718587/)

                          The SARS viruses are more closely related to each other than either is to MERS. But they're all within the same genus of coronaviruses, and more closely related to each other than any of them are to any of the coronaviruses that had previously infected humans (the species shown in yellow above).

                          So, unless Shuny can define some biological reason to exclude the Merbecovirus subgenus from consideration - and I think we can pretty much guarantee that he cannot - then it's simply an artificial distinction he's using to salvage an otherwise failed argument.
                          "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
                            So, basically, even though MERS is closely related to both SARS viruses, you're defining it as different? Is there a biological basis for that definition?

                            For those who don't follow viral evolution, this image shows how closely SARS and MERS viruses cluster within the coronavirus evolutionary tree.
                            gr1_lrg.jpg
                            (Taken from https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pm...es/PMC7718587/)

                            The SARS viruses are more closely related to each other than either is to MERS. But they're all within the same genus of coronaviruses, and more closely related to each other than any of them are to any of the coronaviruses that had previously infected humans (the species shown in yellow above).

                            So, unless Shuny can define some biological reason to exclude the Merbecovirus subgenus from consideration - and I think we can pretty much guarantee that he cannot - then it's simply an artificial distinction he's using to salvage an otherwise failed argument.
                            Yes I am defining the difference as my reference did. I acknowledge that they are within the same genus, but they major point is they are regional evolved viruses, which justifies my argument. The MERS viruses resulting in different regional illnesses and different regional hosts. They are both regional iruses not originally present in other regions of the world.
                            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                            go with the flow the river knows . . .

                            Frank

                            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Wow, I'm impressed!!! No idea whatsoever what that picture is showing, but it looks impressive!
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                                Wow, I'm impressed!!! No idea whatsoever what that picture is showing, but it looks impressive!
                                Sorry about that. That's called a phylogenetic tree - basically, an evolutionary history, in this case based on genome sequences. The horizontal distance between a node (the dark circles) and the two end points is proportional to the number of base pair differences between them.

                                So, if you look up top at the Sarbecoviruses, you'll see that they've probably diversified recently, since all the nodes are near the end of the line. They shared a common ancestor with the Hibecoviruses a bit further back, and the Merbecoviruses a bit further back still.
                                "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

                                Comment

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